Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....

[Fenster]

Vitali came back in 2008, I guess you didn't want me to count 2 of the 3 fights Wladimir had that year because they happened before October of that year

OK so Wlad & Vitali hurt each other because they are fighting different opponents? Well you DO realize that the ratings of the different sanctioning bodies are different right? I mean that's NOT lost on you is it? Who has fought better competition recently Is it Vitali or Wlad or don't you know? You seem to be easily confused right now.

If you're not suggesting they fight each other what RATIONAL idea to do you have in mind?

1. Pay attention. What came before Vitali's comeback is irrelevant to my point.

2. The ratings from different sanctioning bodies throw up different opponents? That is EXACTLY the point i've been making. If you are limited to a certain amount of opponents per division, how can you ever establish yourself as THE best? You can't. Unless you defeat your independently recognised closest challenger.

3. This is a real simple way to understand this - If Haye beat Wlad he would be THE best heavyweight on the planet, right? Who would Haye have been expected to fight next? Vitali!!! Why? Because Vitali is the next best.

Wlad has a luxury that basically no other fighter in history has. He's a good "champion." But his brother is a major factor in his career.

[ninjaspy3]

Vitali came back in 2008, I guess you didn't want me to count 2 of the 3 fights Wladimir had that year because they happened before October of that year

OK so Wlad & Vitali hurt each other because they are fighting different opponents? Well you DO realize that the ratings of the different sanctioning bodies are different right? I mean that's NOT lost on you is it? Who has fought better competition recently Is it Vitali or Wlad or don't you know? You seem to be easily confused right now.

If you're not suggesting they fight each other what RATIONAL idea to do you have in mind?

1. Pay attention. What came before Vitali's comeback is irrelevant to my point.

2. The ratings from different sanctioning bodies throw up different opponents? That is EXACTLY the point i've been making. If you are limited to a certain amount of opponents per division, how can you ever establish yourself as THE best? You can't. Unless you defeat your independently recognised closest challenger.

3. This is a real simple way to understand this - If Haye beat Wlad he would be THE best heavyweight on the planet, right? Who would Haye have been expected to fight next? Vitali!!! Why? Because Vitali is the next best.

Wlad has a luxury that basically no other fighter in history has. He's a good "champion." But his brother is a major factor in his career.

Definitely. When the toughest opponent out there is your own brother who you dont have to fight, that is convienient.

Also in my opinion, The Klitschkos have the advantage of dividing up different opponents between the 2 of them.

With most of the opposition I dont think it mattered as much as both were fully capable of beating some opponents. But then there were one or two matched with a Klitschko brother better suited to that particular brother.

For example, i think Vitali took on a few that would have troubled Wladimir and vise vera.

When there is only 1 champ, he has to fight all opposition.

[El Kabong]

1. Pay attention. What came before Vitali's comeback is irrelevant to my point.

2. The ratings from different sanctioning bodies throw up different opponents? That is EXACTLY the point i've been making. If you are limited to a certain amount of opponents per division, how can you ever establish yourself as THE best? You can't. Unless you defeat your independently recognised closest challenger.

3. This is a real simple way to understand this - If Haye beat Wlad he would be THE best heavyweight on the planet, right? Who would Haye have been expected to fight next? Vitali!!! Why? Because Vitali is the next best.

Wlad has a luxury that basically no other fighter in history has. He's a good "champion." But his brother is a major factor in his career.

1. You posted like Wlad wasn't being an active Champion when he defended his titles 3 times in 2008.

2. Nobody is going to argue against the fact that there are too many sanctioning bodies, too many belts, etc. But the Klitschko's stay active and fight roughly twice a year if not more.

3. You've conceeded your point, you just admitted Wlad is THE BEST HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE DIVISION. Now surely you meant to alledge that "He'll never fight the 2nd best heavyweight in the division" but that's erroneous because the 2nd best heavyweight won't fight the #1 either so they blank each other out and what are we left with? We're left with Wlad as #1, Vitali as #1a and everybody else waaaaaaaaaaay down the line at #2-whatever

[Fenster]

1. Pay attention. What came before Vitali's comeback is irrelevant to my point.

2. The ratings from different sanctioning bodies throw up different opponents? That is EXACTLY the point i've been making. If you are limited to a certain amount of opponents per division, how can you ever establish yourself as THE best? You can't. Unless you defeat your independently recognised closest challenger.

3. This is a real simple way to understand this - If Haye beat Wlad he would be THE best heavyweight on the planet, right? Who would Haye have been expected to fight next? Vitali!!! Why? Because Vitali is the next best.

Wlad has a luxury that basically no other fighter in history has. He's a good "champion." But his brother is a major factor in his career.

1. You posted like Wlad wasn't being an active Champion when he defended his titles 3 times in 2008.

2. Nobody is going to argue against the fact that there are too many sanctioning bodies, too many belts, etc. But the Klitschko's stay active and fight roughly twice a year if not more.

3. You've conceeded your point, you just admitted Wlad is THE BEST HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE DIVISION. Now surely you meant to alledge that "He'll never fight the 2nd best heavyweight in the division" but that's erroneous because the 2nd best heavyweight won't fight the #1 either so they blank each other out and what are we left with? We're left with Wlad as #1, Vitali as #1a and everybody else waaaaaaaaaaay down the line at #2-whatever

We're left without a true definitive champion.

Boxing is not tag team. It is not doubles. You can't claim credit for your partners success. The Klits are individuals. Even you, Wlad's biggest fan, demean his accomplishments by refering to HIM as "the Klitschko's"