Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

You're going back into fantasy "what ifs"

I'm purely dealing in fact. "Robberies," bad decisions and terrible match-ups are common place in boxing. However, the "man who beat the man" is the closest you can ever get to having a TRUE champion.

Hold up... even your fantasy linage leads back to Lewis. I've forgot what point you was making? ()

Factually Sven Otke is undefeated! We all know briggs wasn't THE MAN! Bowe was LL's no.2! Briggs....LOL. Of course the lineage is up for debate.

[Fenster]

You're going back into fantasy "what ifs"

I'm purely dealing in fact. "Robberies," bad decisions and terrible match-ups are common place in boxing. However, the "man who beat the man" is the closest you can ever get to having a TRUE champion.

Hold up... even your fantasy linage leads back to Lewis. I've forgot what point you was making? ()

Factually Sven Otke is undefeated! We all know briggs wasn't THE MAN! Bowe was LL's no.2! Briggs....LOL. Of course the lineage is up for debate.

I don't think you understand what lineage is?

When there was ONE champion you had to beat him to become champion. "The man who beat the man." It's the purest form of establishing a king per division. If the lineage gets broken (a champion retires), it gets restarted when the independently recognised no.1 and 2 meet.

The lineage is not up for debate. What can be up for debate is whether or not the lineal champion is actually the "best" fighter in the division. But that just complicates matters even further.

Bowe was better than Briggs. I agree. However, Briggs was the lineal champion when Lewis beat him. And that win cemented Lewis position in history going back a million years. The heavyweight lineage is very easy to trace.

Sven Ottke was never a lineal champion. Being undefeated is irrelevant. Calzaghe became lineal champion when he defeated Jeff Lacy (they were independently rated 1 and 2). Like Ottke, his "world" title defenses prior to this are basically meaningless.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

"The man who beat the man."

Yes but i am arguing that brigg's was not the man! Most ppl think he did not beat big george!

The lineage is not up for debate.

Yes it is.

Sven Ottke was never a lineal champion.

U miss-understand! I am not arguing for bummy otke's lineal claim's. I was highlighting the fact that u said u are dealing in pure fact. Otke is UNDEFEATED if we are to just accept thing's without question! In truth he has many losses. Otke is not undefeated and brigg's did not deserve the lineage.

A lot of ppl think Foreman dominated Briggs. Foreman consistently backed Briggs up, landed harder and more frequent punches, and had Briggs hurt on more than one occasion.

After the fight, Briggs was more surprised than anyone when the verdict was announced in his favor. The decision seemed inexcusable, not just because Briggs received the nod, but because he won by such absurdly lopsided margins on two of the scorecards.

[Fenster]

Yes I am dealing in fact because i'm accepting the official verdict (regardless of whether or not I agree with it)

"Deserving" the lineage is utterly irrelevant. You either win or lose. Simple as that. It doesn't matter that "most" people think Briggs lost to Foreman. We'd be here till the dawn of time discussing "robberies" and bad decisions.

Ottke is undefeated. That's a fact. If you think he lost certain fights that's your "opinion." It wont change the record books. Just as history will never change the fact Lennox Lewis took the lineage from Shannon Briggs.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Yes I am dealing in fact because i'm accepting the official verdict

OJ simpson is innocent!

You either win or lose. Simple as that. It doesn't matter that "most" people think Briggs lost to Foreman. We'd be here till the dawn of time discussing "robberies" and bad decisions.

Who won?

Ottke is undefeated. That's a fact. If you think he lost certain fights that's your "opinion." It wont change the record books. Just as history will never change the fact Lennox Lewis took the lineage from Shannon Briggs.

I think his claim is pretty weak.. Foreman hadn't done anything meaningful in years, had long been stripped and the decision was razor thin... Briggs - by virtue of a bogus decision - WAS a lineal champ. The fight wasn't even for a belt either! U accept officialdom if u want though.

[TitoFan]

Yes I am dealing in fact because i'm accepting the official verdict

OJ simpson is innocent!

You either win or lose. Simple as that. It doesn't matter that "most" people think Briggs lost to Foreman. We'd be here till the dawn of time discussing "robberies" and bad decisions.

Who won?

Ottke is undefeated. That's a fact. If you think he lost certain fights that's your "opinion." It wont change the record books. Just as history will never change the fact Lennox Lewis took the lineage from Shannon Briggs.

I think his claim is pretty weak.. Foreman hadn't done anything meaningful in years, had long been stripped and the decision was razor thin.. Not sure that I'd personally give that claim to him. Briggs - by virtue of a bogus decision - WAS a lineal champ. U accept officialdom if u want though.

Helpful Hint of the Day: If you include the "from" in your quotes, people can see who posted the text you are quoting.
(Note: Especially useful when you're multi-quoting).

[El Kabong]

Helpful Hint of the Day: If you include the "from" in your quotes, people can see who posted the text you are quoting.
(Note: Especially useful when you're multi-quoting).

It doesn't matter, Shannon Briggs wasn't the lineal champion because "people" "thought" that Foreman won their fight so I'm never wrong.....NEVER WRONG.......NEVER

[Fenster]

Yes I am dealing in fact because i'm accepting the official verdict

OJ simpson is innocent!

You either win or lose. Simple as that. It doesn't matter that "most" people think Briggs lost to Foreman. We'd be here till the dawn of time discussing "robberies" and bad decisions.

Who won?

Ottke is undefeated. That's a fact. If you think he lost certain fights that's your "opinion." It wont change the record books. Just as history will never change the fact Lennox Lewis took the lineage from Shannon Briggs.

I think his claim is pretty weak.. Foreman hadn't done anything meaningful in years, had long been stripped and the decision was razor thin... Briggs - by virtue of a bogus decision - WAS a lineal champ. The fight wasn't even for a belt either! U accept officialdom if u want though.

A jury found OJ Simpson NOT guilty in a criminal court. That's a fact. My personal opinion that he was guilty still doesn't change that fact.

You don't need a belt for lineage. That's the beauty of it. You just need a champion.

Foreman upset Moorer.
Moorer upset Holyfield.
Holyfield upset Bowe.
Douglas upset Tyson.
Spinks upset Holmes.
Etc etc etc

The title passes hands without discrimination. There's no politics. No alphabet nonsense. The fighter purely gets rewarded for beating the champ.

[El Kabong]

Yes I am dealing in fact because i'm accepting the official verdict

OJ simpson is innocent!

You either win or lose. Simple as that. It doesn't matter that "most" people think Briggs lost to Foreman. We'd be here till the dawn of time discussing "robberies" and bad decisions.

Who won?

Ottke is undefeated. That's a fact. If you think he lost certain fights that's your "opinion." It wont change the record books. Just as history will never change the fact Lennox Lewis took the lineage from Shannon Briggs.

I think his claim is pretty weak.. Foreman hadn't done anything meaningful in years, had long been stripped and the decision was razor thin... Briggs - by virtue of a bogus decision - WAS a lineal champ. The fight wasn't even for a belt either! U accept officialdom if u want though.

A jury found OJ Simpson NOT guilty in a criminal court. That's a fact. My personal opinion that he was guilty still doesn't change that fact.

You don't need a belt for lineage. That's the beauty of it. You just need a champion.

Foreman upset Moorer.
Moorer upset Holyfield.
Holyfield upset Bowe.
Douglas upset Tyson.
Spinks upset Holmes.
Etc etc etc

The title passes hands without discrimination. There's no politics. No alphabet nonsense. The fighter purely gets rewarded for beating the champ.

Yes but PROVE Shannon Briggs was the lineal champion that's all I'm asking.