Mike Tyson prime vs David tua prime

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

A plethora of insults and emoticons won't compensate for your butthurtness! Yes of course if tua was a natural LHW his power would diminish a little. Power to weight ration. If u don't think size has anything at all to do with power then i guess u would support the fact that i.e Kosty Tszyu's power would be as effective at let's say MW! (We have done all this on the other thread and u got humiliated!)

I will just reiterate that IMO Comparing the size of HW's today is a valid thing to do because the size disparities in the division are greater than in any other division and the size difference of a large % of the fighters competing in it today compared to i.e the 70's is clearly evident! When talking about 2 NOTED punchers as WK and GF are then the fact that wlad is 30lbs of solid muscle heavier (prime weight!) must factor in. Im comparing WK's power to GF's power and that alone!

And no you're right he can't handle mighty monte barrett's power just like he couldn't handle LL's power or IKE, Rahman, Maskaev etc's power! LOL. Pathetic. You're just sounding butthurt and petty now. Pull yourself together young lady and take your ass whooping with humility!

Just more fail on your part...As for larry and mo...Well it's demeaning even quoting them. End of discussion. No response needed as no reply forth coming. Brownie points for trying though EK.

[El Kabong]

You said that you rate Foreman higher as an ATG than Tua but "power is a different matter"...and so I asked if Tua's power went up or down with his weight as he fluctuated throughout his career starting off at a slim/svelt 201 and then beefing up to a whopping 253 at his heaviest.

Also you rate Tua's power so much you fail to recognize that his percentage of KO's is 74.14% which is much lower than George Foreman's 83.95% and Wladimir's is 81.97% (also lower than Foreman's). So that might not answer specifically "Who hit's the hardest?" but it shows a statistic that Foreman won by KO more often than Tua or Wlad.

Also when Chris Byrd was questioned about who hit him the hardest Chris Byrd without hesitation said David Tua. Granted that might support your point about Tua being a hard puncher but let's remember that Chris Byrd had fought Vitali (who weighed 244 & 1/2) , Wladimir (who weighed 238 & 241 for their fights), Ike Ibeabuchi (weighed 244 & 3/4) and David Tua only weighed 233 for his fight vs Byrd therefore telling me and everyone else that just sheer weight isn't the end all be all of power.


....class dismissed

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

You said that you rate Foreman higher as an ATG than Tua but [B]"power is a different matter"...and so I asked if Tua's power went up or down with his weight as he fluctuated throughout his career starting off at a slim/svelt 201 and then beefing up to a whopping 253 at his heaviest.

Oh if u insist..

Tua started off at HW @ 201 as a teenager but that was not his prime weight and he soon out grew that weight! I am talking mainly about a fighters prime weight. WK is around 240. Foreman is 217 and Tua's is around 230! U are implying that i am basing WK's power advantage on size and size alone which i have already dismantled u on yet u keep insisting that it is my entire argument! Doe's tua have more power at 250 than at 230? No. Why are u asking if i think tua had more power the fatter he got? Tua's fat levels went up and down not his power! Your terminology is wrong too. He didn't BEEF UP as u suggested he got lazier and fatter!
.

Also you rate Tua's power so much you fail to recognize that his percentage of KO's is 74.14% which is much lower than George Foreman's 83.95% and Wladimir's is 81.97% (also lower than Foreman's). So that might not answer specifically "Who hit's the hardest?" but it shows a statistic that Foreman won by KO more often than Tua or Wlad.

Oh so now we are using stats! LOL. And now we are changing the argument and moving onto Tua V Foreman aswell. Anyway...KO percentage can be miss leading if u do not take into account the quality and the chins of the opponents faced. Wlad has consistantly fought at a higher level against better opponents. Deontay wilder has a 100% KO ratio LOL.Also is a KO% inclusive of TKO's because KO's and TKO's are not the same! I suggest u are miss leading ppl.

Who did george KO to reach that %? Then ask yourself if George had Fought IKE, LL, Byrd, Ruiz etc Would he have such a high one? If george had fought Peter, Byrd, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Brock etc Would he have such a high %? Anyone can rack up that percentage kayoing the alex stewarts of the world! Foreman had a hell of a lot of fights and 90% of them were resume fillers! Wlad has defeated way more undefeated fighters, And fought consistantly at a higher level than foreman did! Lamon brewster has a higher KO % than Foreman and Tyson i believe, what shall we read into that? Marciano and VK have the highest KO ratios if i remember correctly!

If u want stats then have WK's World title stats: Name and KO'ratio in world title fights:

·George Foreman 42.8% (3 of 7)
·Mike Tyson 62.5% (10 of 16)
·Wladimir Klitschko 77.7% (14 0f 1

Also check out there common opponents: Schulz, Martin and Young:

Opponent Wladimir Klitschko's result George Foreman's result:

·Axel Schulz KO8 MD12
·Everett Martin KO8 UD10
·Mark Young KO2 (RTD2) TKO7

This again shows superiority on wlads part! More? The easiest way to convince PPLof the superiority of Klitschko (compared to Foreman) is to mention that George Foreman has scored only 3 KOs in world championship fights 200×2, whereas Wladimir Klitschko has scored approximately 5 x as many!

More? So far 13 people survived fights with Foreman. But only 3 survived against Wlad

Also when Chris Byrd was questioned about who hit him the hardest Chris Byrd without hesitation said David Tua. Granted that might support your point about Tua being a hard puncher but let's remember that Chris Byrd had fought Vitali (who weighed 244 & 1/2) , Wladimir (who weighed 238 & 241 for their fights), Ike Ibeabuchi (weighed 244 & 3/4) and David Tua only weighed 233 for his fight vs Byrd therefore telling me and everyone else that just sheer weight isn't the end all be all of power.

Yes but not every small fighter has the gifts that byrd does! In all likely hood foreman would have lost to byrd too! Can i have the link to were he said it too please? Only weighed 233! Only! LOL. 233 of pure muscle! LOL..And yet again i never said it was the be all and end all. Why do u keep suggesting that i did? U keep re-iterating that over and over, yet show me were i said size is the deciding factor? We are talking NOTED punchers too remember! BTW the other 3 u mentioned pretty much handled byrd!!

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Read this:

Boxing - I sparred with Evander Holyfield, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, David Tua and others

A nice perspective from someone who sparred them all!

P.s what class are we dismissing?

Have a bit more (i think iv made my point by now):

I usually don't care what trainers say but since Emanuel Stewart hits the nail on its head I want to quote him:

"What makes him really special also is he has so much power in the late rounds. A lot of guys, great punchers like ·Mike Tyson ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), they were great in the early rounds but very seldom in the late rounds. Wladimir has knocked out guys like he did with ·Chris Byrd ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), and ·RayAustin ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), and ·Eliseo Castillo ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) – he knocked those guys out early because he threw a punch early, an early power punch. And then he’s had the power to go out after being down three times with ·Samuel Peter ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) and he had him out on his feet in the twelfth round of a very grueling fight with one single punch, a left hook. Then he knocked out ·Tony Thompson ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). With Tony Thompson he ran across the ring and threw one straight right hand in the eleventh round and just walked away, and Thompson went down totally finished. Now he knocks out this guy in the 12th round with ten or twelve seconds left with one punch. To have a fighter that has that kind of devastating one punch clean knockout power is so much stress on the opponent because you’re never safe."

(Emmanuel Stewart, HOF trainer of Wladimir Klitschko)

[El Kabong]

....you want to compare how a 20 something Wladimir Klitschko and a 40+ George Foreman did vs similar opponents and you think that's a reasonable and rational argument?

Your samples are cute...I used their entire careers because I'm not attempting to angle things in my favor because I know I'm correct, I don't have to skew numbers to fit my view.

Chris Byrd said what he said about David Tua on a Friday Night Fight's episode when Brian Kenny was still hosting and David Tua was also in the interview as well...take it or leave it at my word that's what Chris Byrd said he said "David Tua hit the hardest" and Kenny asked about Ike Ibeabuchi and Byrd said "Tua".

Yes we're talking about NOTED power punchers but when I mention guys like Rocky or Shavers, or Foreman you ALWAYS mention weight and I'm telling you that those guys could bang and it didn't matter if they weighed 170 or 250 they'd knock you out because they knew how to punch hard. You know the old saying that "punchers are born not made"....well those guys were born punchers and their stats back it up.

[ross]

Now I know where all your crap comes from!

I just read that forum front he link and that is someone taking the piss out of a bunch of naive morons! That isnt for real!

Gullible fucker

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Now I know where all your crap comes from!

I just read that forum front he link and that is someone taking the piss out of a bunch of naive morons! That isnt for real!

Gullible fucker

LOL.

And u are someone's opinion we should value more! Truth hurts. My car needs washing ross!

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

LOL.

WK's World title stats: Name and KO'ratio in world title fights:

·George Foreman 42.8% (3 of 7)
·Mike Tyson 62.5% (10 of 16)
·Wladimir Klitschko 77.7% (14 0f 1

Another way of comparing is common opponents: Schulz, Martin and Young:

Opponent Wladimir Klitschko's result George Foreman's result:

·Axel Schulz KO8 MD12
·Everett Martin KO8 UD10
·Mark Young KO2 (RTD2) TKO7

This again shows superiority on wlads part! More?

How about the fact that George Foreman has scored only 3 KOs in world championship fights 200×2, whereas Wladimir Klitschko has scored approximately 5 x as many!

More? So far 13 people survived fights with Foreman. But only 3 survived against Wlad! Shall we go on?

Let's also take a look at people who have sparred with them (Of course we must value the opinion of some forum trolls over someone who actually experienced them! 'But wait that guy must be lyeing.....') LOL:

I-sparred-with-Evander-Holyfield-George-Foreman-Lennox-Lewis-David-Tua-and-others-td4090601

Lets take the opinion of someone in the know:

"What makes him really special also is he has so much power in the late rounds. A lot of guys, great punchers like ·Mike Tyson, they were great in the early rounds but very seldom in the late rounds. Wladimir has knocked out guys like he did with ·Chris Byrd, and RayAustin, and ·Eliseo Castillo – he knocked those guys out early because he threw a punch early, an early power punch. And then he’s had the power to go out after being down three times with ·Samuel Peter and he had him out on his feet in the twelfth round of a very grueling fight with one single punch, a left hook. Then he knocked out Tony thompson. With Tony Thompson he ran across the ring and threw one straight right hand in the eleventh round and just walked away, and Thompson went down totally finished. Now he knocks out this guy in the 12th round with ten or twelve seconds left with one punch. To have a fighter that has that kind of devastating one punch clean knockout power is so much stress on the opponent because you’re never safe."

(Emmanuel Stewart, HOF trainer of Wladimir Klitschko) Also note Freddie roach said WK hit harder than Tyson!

More? Let's see who foreman says hit him the hardest:

Boxing - George Foreman reveals who hit him the hardest..

Oh look cooney! As i said cooney had an argument too!

Let's look at someone who fought LL and WK (Phil jackson) He says wlad hit harder:

Ex-Foe says Wladimir Klitschko Can Still Be Champ

More powerful than Lennox Lewis would you say?

Phil Jackson: "Yeah, most definitely. Yeah."

Shall we go on? U see im not basing it all on size, i said IMO being 25lbs of solid muscle larger factors in! when talking about NOTED punchers, of course foreman has incredible power and he is an ATG puncher but IMO WK hits harder! Stop crying and produce a counter to this argument! Now point me to where i said foreman doesn't hit as hard because WK is bigger? I said that when comparing those 2 then wlads size must factor in as part of the equation IMO!

[palmerq]

not sure what the current topic of tihs thread is but in response to the last post I dont wladmir hits especially hard, he has good power for sure but i think lennox had more power... wlad can land a great right hand like he did v tony thompson(or chagaev in the early rounds) but then thompson/chagaev will get up and continue, wladimir does not seem to have one punch knockout power in my opinion his knockouts seem to come from an accumulation of punches... lennox seemed to able to blow people away with just one shot(a well placed shot obviously) like his rematch v rahman... so i would say wladimirs power is a bit overrated

[Majesty]

We never really got to see prime Tyson. He was self-destructing even before he won his first belt. The primest Tyson we did see was the scariest combination of speed, mobility and power that I've ever seen by an absolute country mile and would have destroyed Tua.

Pretty much this. Tyson could outbox Tua as well as outslug him, Tua had a chin for days but Tyson hitting him with precision both to the body and to the head it's not out of the question that Tyson would have done some damage. If Chris Byrd was able to effect Tua to the body, I'd cringe to think what Tyson's body attack would have done to him.

[Memphis]

Read this:

Boxing - I sparred with Evander Holyfield, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, David Tua and others

A nice perspective from someone who sparred them all!

Cheers for that. Nice reading.

[Beanflicker]

Prime Tyson eats Prime Tua for lunch, and I'm a big fan of the large Samoan.

Tyson was superior to Tua in pretty much every way. Tua had huge power, sure, but not much in the way of boxing skill or ring generalship. Tyson, beyond his brutal power, had solid fundamentals, hand speed and a solid, snap your head off your shoulders-type jab. He was a vicious body puncher as well.

Tua had a great left hook, but his right hand left a lot to be desired IMO. Tyson could easily knock your head off with either hand, using any punch.

People talk about how Tyson was a bully, that he couldn't stand people fighting back. I say that's bullshit. Tyson took BOMBS from guys like Frank Bruno and Razor Ruddock, and fought on to win. Tyson had a great chin - even the times where he was KO'd, it was after an accumulation of punishment.

I like Tua, and I know he had the power to beat anyone if he landed that left hook flush on the jaw, but if you think prime Tua beats prime Tyson I think you need your head examined.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Read this:

Boxing - I sparred with Evander Holyfield, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, David Tua and others

A nice perspective from someone who sparred them all!

Cheers for that. Nice reading.

More than welcome.