Romney vs. Obama Debate - Part II on Tuesday - let's score it!

[Kirkland Laing]

If I'm saying that you should have higher taxes

Thank you, that's all I asked....was it THAT difficult to finally admit it Kirkland? Oh and I bet there are a thousand countries who want to be like fucking Finland, get the fuck outta here with that shit.

You're doing this on purpose, you can't actually be this dumb. If you add on what you spend on health insurance, daycare and education and what you pay for a decent pension to retire on to your tax bill then you'll discover that you're currently paying as much or more than Finnish people are for the services they get. And they get much better services than you do. What part of this don't you understand?

Also, too. You don't have a high corporate tax rate in America. The stated rate is high but nobody pays that. Over two-thirds of corporations don't pay corporation tax at all :

StoneMor Partners LP, the publicly traded firm that specializes in running cemeteries, expects to see handsome profits in coming years as baby boomers age and die. But unlike its largest rivals, its corporate tax bill from the federal government will be zero. StoneMor is among the many businesses organized so they don’t pay a penny in federal corporate income tax. And yet such firms don’t employ an army of accountants to shield profits in complex tax shelters. Their enviable tax position is perfectly legal and has been encouraged by Congress and state governments. Known as pass-throughs, these firms pass along profits to investors who pay taxes on those sums through their individual returns. This exception has been around for decades, and has been broadened repeatedly in recent years as a way to spur entrepreneurship. Millions of small businesses have organized this way, but so too have some behemoths like private-equity giant Blackstone Group LP, construction firm Bechtel Group Inc. and pipeline firm Kinder Morgan. The percentage of U.S. corporations organized as nontaxable businesses has grown from about 24% in 1986 to about 69% as of 2008, according to the latest-available Internal Revenue Service data. The percentage of all firms is far higher when partnerships and sole proprietors are included. Old-line U.S. public companies generally remain taxable, and many complain that they must pay higher effective rates than foreign competitors. They are eagerly seeking a cut in the 35% U.S. corporate-tax rate, now one of the highest in the world. But increasingly they find themselves at odds politically with the growing breed of nontaxable firms.

More U.S. Businesses Enjoy Tax-Free Status - WSJ.com

And the top 1% make as much as the bottom 50%. You just can't run an economy like that for any length of time without it fucking up as you're now finding out. And your reaction as you watch these guys rob your bank in front of your eyes is to run after them saying "wait, you dropped a bag of money, here, take it with you!"

[El Kabong]

You're doing this on purpose, you can't actually be this dumb. If you add on what you spend on health insurance, daycare and education and what you pay for a decent pension to retire on to your tax bill then you'll discover that you're currently paying as much or more than Finnish people are for the services they get. And they get much better services than you do. What part of this don't you understand?

Also, too. You don't have a high corporate tax rate in America. The stated rate is high but nobody pays that. Over two-thirds of corporations don't pay corporation tax at all :

StoneMor Partners LP, the publicly traded firm that specializes in running cemeteries, expects to see handsome profits in coming years as baby boomers age and die. But unlike its largest rivals, its corporate tax bill from the federal government will be zero. StoneMor is among the many businesses organized so they don’t pay a penny in federal corporate income tax. And yet such firms don’t employ an army of accountants to shield profits in complex tax shelters. Their enviable tax position is perfectly legal and has been encouraged by Congress and state governments. Known as pass-throughs, these firms pass along profits to investors who pay taxes on those sums through their individual returns. This exception has been around for decades, and has been broadened repeatedly in recent years as a way to spur entrepreneurship. Millions of small businesses have organized this way, but so too have some behemoths like private-equity giant Blackstone Group LP, construction firm Bechtel Group Inc. and pipeline firm Kinder Morgan. The percentage of U.S. corporations organized as nontaxable businesses has grown from about 24% in 1986 to about 69% as of 2008, according to the latest-available Internal Revenue Service data. The percentage of all firms is far higher when partnerships and sole proprietors are included. Old-line U.S. public companies generally remain taxable, and many complain that they must pay higher effective rates than foreign competitors. They are eagerly seeking a cut in the 35% U.S. corporate-tax rate, now one of the highest in the world. But increasingly they find themselves at odds politically with the growing breed of nontaxable firms.

More U.S. Businesses Enjoy Tax-Free Status - WSJ.com

And the top 1% make as much as the bottom 50%. You just can't run an economy like that for any length of time without it fucking up as you're now finding out. And your reaction as you watch these guys rob your bank in front of your eyes is to run after them saying "wait, you dropped a bag of money, here, take it with you!"

Health insurance, daycare, & education ARE NOT RIGHTS it's just another attempted overextension of the Federal Government that I don't want. You love the idea of a cradle to grave socialist state, I don't. I want to make my own way, I want to do things without help or dependency on the government, why? Because that's how America was built....maybe you don't comprehend that, but America is and always should be a nation of rugged individualism.

[Kirkland Laing]

You're doing this on purpose, you can't actually be this dumb. If you add on what you spend on health insurance, daycare and education and what you pay for a decent pension to retire on to your tax bill then you'll discover that you're currently paying as much or more than Finnish people are for the services they get. And they get much better services than you do. What part of this don't you understand?

Also, too. You don't have a high corporate tax rate in America. The stated rate is high but nobody pays that. Over two-thirds of corporations don't pay corporation tax at all :

StoneMor Partners LP, the publicly traded firm that specializes in running cemeteries, expects to see handsome profits in coming years as baby boomers age and die. But unlike its largest rivals, its corporate tax bill from the federal government will be zero. StoneMor is among the many businesses organized so they don’t pay a penny in federal corporate income tax. And yet such firms don’t employ an army of accountants to shield profits in complex tax shelters. Their enviable tax position is perfectly legal and has been encouraged by Congress and state governments. Known as pass-throughs, these firms pass along profits to investors who pay taxes on those sums through their individual returns. This exception has been around for decades, and has been broadened repeatedly in recent years as a way to spur entrepreneurship. Millions of small businesses have organized this way, but so too have some behemoths like private-equity giant Blackstone Group LP, construction firm Bechtel Group Inc. and pipeline firm Kinder Morgan. The percentage of U.S. corporations organized as nontaxable businesses has grown from about 24% in 1986 to about 69% as of 2008, according to the latest-available Internal Revenue Service data. The percentage of all firms is far higher when partnerships and sole proprietors are included. Old-line U.S. public companies generally remain taxable, and many complain that they must pay higher effective rates than foreign competitors. They are eagerly seeking a cut in the 35% U.S. corporate-tax rate, now one of the highest in the world. But increasingly they find themselves at odds politically with the growing breed of nontaxable firms.

More U.S. Businesses Enjoy Tax-Free Status - WSJ.com

And the top 1% make as much as the bottom 50%. You just can't run an economy like that for any length of time without it fucking up as you're now finding out. And your reaction as you watch these guys rob your bank in front of your eyes is to run after them saying "wait, you dropped a bag of money, here, take it with you!"

Health insurance, daycare, & education ARE NOT RIGHTS it's just another attempted overextension of the Federal Government that I don't want. You love the idea of a cradle to grave socialist state, I don't. I want to make my own way, I want to do things without help or dependency on the government, why? Because that's how America was built....maybe you don't comprehend that, but America is and always should be a nation of rugged individualism.

We're not arguing over whether America should be socialist or not, we're arguing over whether Americans or Finns get better value for the money they pay to the government/private sector for services. And you don't want to continue that argument for some reason.

But how can you argue that America "is and always should be a nation of rugged individualism. ?

America has a socialist retirement/social insurance programme and more than half the healthcare system is socialist. Both these programmes redistribute wealth from the wealthy to the not so wealthy. And both programmes are very popular with American people. So clearly Americans love them a bit of socialism, no?

[El Kabong]

We're not arguing over whether America should be socialist or not, we're arguing over whether Americans or Finns get better value for the money they pay to the government/private sector for services. And you don't want to continue that argument for some reason.

But how can you argue that America "is and always should be a nation of rugged individualism. ?

America has a socialist retirement/social insurance programme and more than half the healthcare system is socialist. Both these programmes redistribute wealth from the wealthy to the not so wealthy. And both programmes are very popular with American people. So clearly Americans love them a bit of socialism, no?

Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid are going to hit a bubble as the Baby Boomers continue to age. We'll have more people taking out than we'll have putting in to those socialist programs and what will happen then?

I've been planning to not have to depend on social security because I'm not naive enough to think it will still be there when I'm ready to retire.

[Kirkland Laing]

We're not arguing over whether America should be socialist or not, we're arguing over whether Americans or Finns get better value for the money they pay to the government/private sector for services. And you don't want to continue that argument for some reason.

But how can you argue that America "is and always should be a nation of rugged individualism. ?

America has a socialist retirement/social insurance programme and more than half the healthcare system is socialist. Both these programmes redistribute wealth from the wealthy to the not so wealthy. And both programmes are very popular with American people. So clearly Americans love them a bit of socialism, no?

Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid are going to hit a bubble as the Baby Boomers continue to age. We'll have more people taking out than we'll have putting in to those socialist programs and what will happen then?

I've been planning to not have to depend on social security because I'm not naive enough to think it will still be there when I'm ready to retire.

It'll be there when you're ready to retire. The fact you don't think it will be is a victory for the Wall Street people who are trying to create the impression it won't be so they can get their hands on the nation's retirement funds. Whether you manage to make enough money to not need it, the fact is that it's the main or only source of retirement income for well over three quarters of Americans. Half of all Americans don't even have five hundred dollars in savings.

And again, you're changing the subject. America loves its socialist programmes and if they were organised better they'd be affordable for the long term and much better quality than the current system.