Wanna make an Ass of yourself and say Klıts can fıght lıke thıs?

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

What you never seem to grasp is the fact that in the 3rd round lennox threw a punch so vicious it opened up vitalis face!

VK outboxed lewis 2/1 on 11 days notice. Fight stopped on cuts. He then lingered on for eight months promising the boxing world a rematch before bowing out when the WBC were about to strip him just like the IBF did when he refused southpaw byrd. LOL. All very questionable.

Now i ask u again should we base a fighter's career on one fight? Your logic dictates that we should measure lewis by mcall! If we are to do things with such questionable elements then we should measure Ali by his lucky escape to Henry Cooper.

This is a younger, fitter, prime vitali.
And everything he threw could not floor lennox.

Correction VK was not even ranked and was scheduled to fight Cedric Boswell LOL. His Ring IQ increased with age just like lewis' did. Flooring an opponent is irrelevant, outboxing one or kayoing one is more pertinant.

Vitali is a true warrior and we can all clearly see that lennox was his toughest opponent of all time that unfortunately he fell short by suffering his first and possibly last tko loss.

Vitali Klitschko: "Sanders was the most difficult
opponent I ever fought"

Wrong again.

The facts are thus: Lewis DID say he'd give Klitschko a rematch, Vitali DID destroy Johnson (the guy Lewis was supposed to face) to 'earn' that rematch, Lewis DID retire after seeing Vitali put Johnson away. Perception and timing is everything, and when you look at the way things played out linearly, it does indeed seem clear that Lewis retired so he wouldn't have to face Vitali. If he was 100% condifent of victory, he could have whipped himself into shape one last time and came in there, put this guy away, made a cool $40M or so, and retired with no questions left unanswered. It is entirely reasonable to believe that Vitali did indeed send Lennox into retirement. It was NOT a decisive victory. It was a win, but not as decisive as some make it out to be.

If lewis did not retire he was about to be stripped of belt #2 because he did not want a fight with a prepared VK. All that is factual. Correct?

I will leave u with the late great emmanuel steward (rip):

“I told Lennox after the fight: I feel like we owe Vitali a rematch. Lennox agreed with me. Even after a year since Lennox left boxing, we talked about that fight. If Vitali and him were able to secure a rematch, it would be very intriguing.”

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...never-happened

[Fenster]

Shut the fuck up keep repeating that 11 days notice rubbish. Lewis had 11 days notice too.

Vitali had a massive advantage in having everything to gain and nothing to lose, being the challanger and underdog.

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

[El Kabong]

Shut the fuck up keep repeating that 11 days notice rubbish. Lewis had 11 days notice too.

Vitali had a massive advantage in having everything to gain and nothing to lose, being the challanger and underdog.

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

Lennox Lewis was the champion. Champions are supposed to be prepared to fight so don't give us the "Lewis was old and fat and out of shape" bullcrap. Also Lennox lost faaaar more money by NOT giving Vitali a rematch & Vitali deserved a rematch, but it never happened, I've moved on.


It was a great great fight, I loved every second of it just as a boxing fan. Can we not agree on that?

[Fenster]

Shut the fuck up keep repeating that 11 days notice rubbish. Lewis had 11 days notice too.

Vitali had a massive advantage in having everything to gain and nothing to lose, being the challanger and underdog.

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

Lennox Lewis was the champion. Champions are supposed to be prepared to fight so don't give us the "Lewis was old and fat and out of shape" bullcrap. Also Lennox lost faaaar more money by NOT giving Vitali a rematch & Vitali deserved a rematch, but it never happened, I've moved on.


It was a great great fight, I loved every second of it just as a boxing fan. Can we not agree on that?

Where did I say Lewis was "old and fat and out of shape" (although he was old and weighed his heaviest ever)

Lewis had ALREADY contemplated retirement before this fight took place. Lewis was joint promoting the bill. It had already gone from PPV to regular HBO. He trained for a fight so obviously thought it was worth the risk taking on a late replacement.

That is a WORLD of difference to renegotiating a whole other fight (rematch). He had already made over a hundred million.

I agree it was a great fight. Vitali's greatest ever moment, even in defeat.

[El Kabong]

Where did I say Lewis was "old and fat and out of shape" (although he was old and weighed his heaviest ever)

Lewis had ALREADY contemplated retirement before this fight took place. Lewis was joint promoting the bill. It had already gone from PPV to regular HBO. He trained for a fight so obviously thought it was worth the risk taking on a late replacement.

That is a WORLD of difference to renegotiating a whole other fight (rematch). He had already made over a hundred million.

I agree it was a great fight. Vitali's greatest ever moment, even in defeat.

Every Lewis fan says it. So why no rematch? It would have been PPV, both figthers could prepare 100%, no excuses, loads of money to be made. It would have been the first heavyweight fight that fans were looking forwrd to since Lewis' fight vs Tyson which was really no match at all.


sad the rematch never happened but both guys gunned for the KO, just right out of the gates big punches from both sides.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

So lewis was concerned with money then? He was offered record amounts for the rematch and wanted none of it. He couldn't face anyone other than a Vitali rematch if he continued fighting because the criticism would be too great. Nobody wants to admit it.He was about to lose belt #2. Lewis was very smart.

If he fought Kirk Johnson on that night, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have retired after. Yes or no?

VK was an unknown back then. Eleven days notice is not good enough prep to fight the linear champ? Do u disagree fenster yes or no?

Any notion of Lewis considering retirement prior to VK is ended with this extract from Lewis and Steward in 03:

Jones, the WBA champion, now seems to be Lewis’s long-term target “We’ll just keep fighting guys until the big fight with Roy Jones comes up and I think it will happen eventually,” Emanuel Steward, Lewis’s trainer, said.

I am such a good poster it's unreal!

[Fenster]

Lewis only fought him so he didn't lose shitloads of money on the promotion. Fact.

So lewis was concerned with money then? He was offered record amounts for the rematch and wanted none of it. He couldn't face anyone other than a Vitali rematch if he continued fighting because the criticism would be too great. Nobody wants to admit it.He was about to lose belt #2. Lewis was very smart.

If he fought Kirk Johnson on that night, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have retired after. Yes or no?

VK was an unknown back then. Eleven days notice is not good enough prep to fight the linear champ? Do u disagree fenster yes or no?

Any notion of Lewis considering retirement prior to VK is ended with this extract from Lewis and Steward in 03:

Jones, the WBA champion, now seems to be Lewis’s long-term target “We’ll just keep fighting guys until the big fight with Roy Jones comes up and I think it will happen eventually,” Emanuel Steward, Lewis’s trainer, said.

I am such a good poster it's unreal!

Well you're not such a good poster if you think quotes like that prove anything. Watch and weep.

Here's a quote from Manny Steward in 2003 after Lewis made the Johnson fight - "Lennox can only lose through complacency, he can go on until 40, he will KO Johnson, Vitali, Roy Jones"

Here's a quote from Lewis on retirement in 2003 - Speculation has been mounting over the last six months that Lewis will retire from the sport altogether rather than step back into the ring. "Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training," said Lewis. "It has to get me excited. At this point I'm not excited by anyone."

Where is Lewis calling out Jones or anyone else?

What a trainer wants and fighter wants are two seperate things. Just because Manny thought HIS fighter could still beat anyone out there doesn't mean Lewis wanted to carry on.

Cop that. Fact.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Where did I say Lewis was "old and fat and out of shape" (although he was old and weighed his heaviest ever)

He wasn't old he was a year older than Wk is now! How old were Holyfield and Tyson when they fought LL? What did Tyson weigh? LOL. Point me to this out of shape lennox because he looks in tip top condition to me:



He wasn't going to be the weight he was at 21 was he? Besides...ppl act like an 'in shape lewis' was invincible. Did u see the mcall fight! Or the fight were an out of shape Mercer tore him up?

Lewis had ALREADY contemplated retirement before this fight took place. Lewis was joint promoting the bill. It had already gone from PPV to regular HBO. He trained for a fight so obviously thought it was worth the risk taking on a late replacement.

Want the Jones quote again?

That is a WORLD of difference to renegotiating a whole other fight (rematch). He had already made over a hundred million.

"Will you give him a rematch?"
"If he calls for it and the money is right"

-Lennox Lewis.

He did call for it and the money was $20 million dollars six months later to fight a rematch.

I agree it was a great fight. Vitali's greatest ever moment, even in defeat.[/QUOTE]

His greatest ever moment was taking the WBC & The Ring Heavyweight title off of Lewis promoted Southpaw Corrie Sanders. Coming out of retirement and taking the WBC belt again by brutalising Peter. Destroying Hide at 24–0 to Win the WBO version. Taking apart undefeated fighter after undefeated fighter into his 40's....

George Foreman: "Vitali was winning the fight. Lewis got lucky. There has to be a rematch!"

Jim Lampley: "A lucky escape for Lewis who was clearly losing the fight"

LOL.

[ninjaspy3]

Where did I say Lewis was "old and fat and out of shape" (although he was old and weighed his heaviest ever)

He wasn't old he was a year older than Wk is now! How old were Holyfield and Tyson when they fought LL? What did Tyson weigh? LOL. Point me to this out of shape lennox because he looks in tip top condition to me:



He wasn't going to be the weight he was at 21 was he? Besides...ppl act like an 'in shape lewis' was invincible. Did u see the mcall fight! Or the fight were an out of shape Mercer tore him up?

Lewis had ALREADY contemplated retirement before this fight took place. Lewis was joint promoting the bill. It had already gone from PPV to regular HBO. He trained for a fight so obviously thought it was worth the risk taking on a late replacement.

Want the Jones quote again?

That is a WORLD of difference to renegotiating a whole other fight (rematch). He had already made over a hundred million.

"Will you give him a rematch?"
"If he calls for it and the money is right"

-Lennox Lewis.

He did call for it and the money was $20 million dollars six months later to fight a rematch.

I agree it was a great fight. Vitali's greatest ever moment, even in defeat.

His greatest ever moment was taking the WBC & The Ring Heavyweight title off of Lewis promoted Southpaw Corrie Sanders. Coming out of retirement and taking the WBC belt again by brutalising Peter. Destroying Hide at 24–0 to Win the WBO version. Taking apart undefeated fighter after undefeated fighter into his 40's....

George Foreman: "Vitali was winning the fight. Lewis got lucky. There has to be a rematch!"

Jim Lampley: "A lucky escape for Lewis who was clearly losing the fight"

LOL.[/QUOTE]

Those last few quotes about Lewis "losing" the fight are to be looked at objectively. Lewis may have been down on the cards but he sure looked like he was on his way to winning that fight.

Lewis had moments in the fight where it looked rough but he weathered the storm and regained composure.

[TitoFan]

I think Wlad is chinny and hasn't been severely tested. His losses have been by ugly KO.

Vitali, though is a whole 'nother story.
He hits just as hard as Wlad, but has a chin of granite.

He may not be as mobile and agile as Wlad, but IMO has been the better all-around fighter.

All this is to say that I don't get the Lewis hate while supporting Vitali, or the Vitali hate in supporting Lewis. All I saw was a hugely tremendous fight, the likes of which we haven't seen since. THAT was a heavyweight fight. We were robbed of more of this classic when Vitali got that ugly gash over his eye. If not... the fight was promising to be a classic for the ages.

Wlad, on the other hand, has never faced that kind of test.
And the first one to mention Sam Peter gets shot.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

You just said quotes don't prove anything then go onto use quotation's LOL.

Here's a quote from Manny Steward in 2003 after Lewis made the Johnson fight - "Lennox can only lose through complacency, he can go on until 40, he will KO Johnson, Vitali, Roy Jones"

“I told Lennox after the fight: I feel like we owe Vitali a rematch. Lennox agreed with me".

-Steward. No getting out of that on Fenster.

Here's a quote from Lewis on retirement in 2003 - Speculation has been mounting over the last six months that Lewis will retire from the sport altogether rather than step back into the ring

You do know those quotations u gave me are from an interview in which LL stated this about Tyson:

"It really depends on him," said Lewis. "I'm not forcing any man to fight me. But when we signed for the first fight, we signed for two fights.

"I'm waiting for him to write to me to let me know his next move"

How embarrasing...He's crying about a shot to shit tyson not fighting him again yet a fight with a live body like VK who actually posed a threat in the previous fight (and that would make millions) and in which LL agreed to was shelved! LOL. So not only was Steward looking at a potential Jones fight, LL by his own admission was awaiting a Tyson rematch! LOL again. Also note the link does not rule out a fight with Jones Jr.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/2812363.stm

What a trainer wants and fighter wants are two seperate things. Just because Manny thought HIS fighter could still beat anyone out there doesn't mean Lewis wanted to carry on.

Jones, the WBA champion, now seems to be Lewis’s long-term target “We’ll just keep fighting guys until the big fight with Roy Jones comes up and I think it will happen eventually,” Emanuel Steward, Lewis’s trainer, said.

Make of that what u will.

P.s And i never stated Lewis was calling anyone out did i? Facts are thus: Lewis agreed to a rematch and did not come through on it.

[Fenster]

@THE PHILOSOPHER

I said YOUR quotes don't prove anything. As I have shown.

This is what you said -

Any notion of Lewis considering retirement prior to VK is ended with this extract from Lewis and Steward in 03:

This is what Lewis said in 2003 prior to Vitali

"Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training," said Lewis. "It has to get me excited. At this point I'm not excited by anyone."

Lewis was considering retirement BEFORE the Vitali fight. Fact.

[Fenster]

@THE PHILOSOPHER

Also get your facts and figures right about purses. Vitali-Lewis 2 would have never got CLOSE to earning Lewis a "record" amount. Fact.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

@THE PHILOSOPHER

I said YOUR quotes don't prove anything. As I have shown.

This is what you said -

Any notion of Lewis considering retirement prior to VK is ended with this extract from Lewis and Steward in 03:

This is what Lewis said in 2003 prior to Vitali

"Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training," said Lewis. "It has to get me excited. At this point I'm not excited by anyone."

Lewis was considering retirement BEFORE the Vitali fight. Fact.

Lewis on Tyson in 03:

"It really depends on him," said Lewis. "I'm not forcing any man to fight me. But when we signed for the first fight, we signed for two fights.

"I'm waiting for him to write to me to let me know his next move."

Also note your link (The one which u got your extract from!) pre-dates the VK fight. That is an important point here!!! It was an interview before he fought that epic with vitali!

Your extract: "Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training"

U mean like a VK rematch lennox? LOL. U know...one in which he only got 11 days notice and gave u an epic! How about one in which he gets more than a weeks notice and get's some serious prep under his belt rather than going through the motions with the cedric boswells of the world!

I don't think he was seriously considering it until he fought VK. His Tyson comments and Mannys comments on Jones pretty much support this! Could u also explain why he agreed to a rematch if he was going to retire? You don't agree to a fight then retire do you! Does not add up to me! LL was not retiring because he agreed to a rematch with VK. Fact. Tyson signed to fight him twice too! So explain that one! And Manny was gunning for jones! Again not really the talk of a team considering calling an immediate halt! LL would not have retired had he fought his mandatory Kirk Johnson and not VK. U damn well know it Fenster!

Im far from weeping yet fenster. Up your game son.

[imp]

At the start of the thread it was asked whether the vlit brothers could hang out 15 rounds like the greats did.
The answer is yes when talking about both in todays opposition.
The answer is no when talking about Wlad with some the legends from yesterday.
The answer is yes when talking about vitali with yesterday and todays fighters.

As someone said before standing toe to toe and beating each others brains out is not a smart/long term positive in boxing.
Floyd adopts the safety first style more than anyone else but comparing him to Wlad is like chalk and cheese.

Lennox and Vitali has a great fight in the ring and lennox won.
Lennox didnt give vitali a rematch just like calzaghe didnt give an old hopkins (who some say beat joey c).
Does that make either have there win removed from the history books..no it doesnt.

No one knows what could have happened in either rematch but what was evident in the vitali/lewis was that lewis stopped vitali.

Lewis stopped vitali.

Lets just respect the facts.
Promoters, trainers and fighters say lots of things but vitali could not continue.