What is "israel"? Somebody please....?

[TitoFan]

Have I suggested you should not have your own views? All I'm saying is... when presented with facts and opinions from an informed source, who may have a better vantage point than we have... is it not reasonable to at least become a little introspective and re-evaluate the views we've held based on other information?

People that can do that... (REALLY do that, not just lip-service)... and modify their thoughts and beliefs based on newer, better, more accurate information... are in my opinion, admirable.

So if I CHANGE my views to be more in lined with yours then you would have MORE admiration for me? By your own view, I presented you with factual video evidence of the Palestinians doing wrong, feigning injuries and deaths to encite more violence in the region and your view on the matter has not shifted one bit....but I'm supposed to accept your posts and what you believe as truth to be more admired by you. Awesome, I can't believe I never saw it that way before, Go Palestine! Kill those greedy Heebs!!! Admirable yet

Once again you're twisting my words to suit your purpose. Who said anything about you changing your views to be in line with mine? I haven't been among the Palestine people or lived among the Israelis and Arabs any more than you have. But when I read accounts of someone who has... I pay attention and put some weight on those accounts.

Surely you've heard of propaganda, right? Surely you know that news are routinely slanted to align with the views and goals of the country whose interests are being defended, right?

As a well-educated young American, I assume you realize that not ALL Arabs and Palestinians are bad, just like not all Israelis are good............ right?



















Right?

[El Kabong]

What if I re-evaluate my views and come to the same conclusion I came to before??

[TitoFan]

What if I re-evaluate my views and come to the same conclusion I came to before??

If you re-evaluate your views and come to the same conclusions as before:

1. Arabs bad, Jews good.
2. Guns good, control bad. Any control... don't give a shit.
3. Government aid bad, all recipients are moochers.
4. U.S. is center of universe.
5. Democrats bad, Republicans good. Candidates don't matter.
6. Klitschkos = gods
7. Me Lyle... never wrong. Facts are irrevelant.
8. Give me my sipping bourbon while I sit on the porch of my plantation.


Then hell..... at least you gave it a try.

[VictorCharlie]

What if I re-evaluate my views and come to the same conclusion I came to before??

If you re-evaluate your views and come to the same conclusions as before:

1. Arabs bad, Jews good.
2. Guns good, control bad. Any control... don't give a shit.
3. Government aid bad, all recipients are moochers.
4. U.S. is center of universe.
5. Democrats bad, Republicans good. Candidates don't matter.
6. Klitschkos = gods
7. Me Lyle... never wrong. Facts are irrevelant.
8. Give me my sipping bourbon while I sit on the porch of my plantation.


Then hell..... at least you gave it a try.

This really can't be argued with and is paramount to all other opinions listed.

[TitoFan]

You're right, VC. I might want to do the same, but P.R. style. Instead of bourbon... maybe a "Cuba libre" with Don Q gold (8-years aged) and instead of a plantation... my house porch overlooking the beach.

[VictorCharlie]

Don't go wasting good rum by adding coke to it. The only thing that should be added to good liquor is maybe ice and in the case of rum a squeezed lime.

[El Kabong]

If you re-evaluate your views and come to the same conclusions as before:

1. Arabs bad, Jews good.
2. Guns good, control bad. Any control... don't give a shit.
3. Government aid bad, all recipients are moochers.
4. U.S. is center of universe.
5. Democrats bad, Republicans good. Candidates don't matter.
6. Klitschkos = gods
7. Me Lyle... never wrong. Facts are irrevelant.
8. Give me my sipping bourbon while I sit on the porch of my plantation.


Then hell..... at least you gave it a try.

OK, and I'm sure all of that was meant in a non-racist tone right? Pretty special for you to take time out of your busy day to imply that I'm some kind of slave owner....but hey, I'm the extreme one right? I'm the "racist" one right? I'm the one that is irrational right?

I'm going to allow my blood pressure a chance to go down before further response

[TitoFan]

If you re-evaluate your views and come to the same conclusions as before:

1. Arabs bad, Jews good.
2. Guns good, control bad. Any control... don't give a shit.
3. Government aid bad, all recipients are moochers.
4. U.S. is center of universe.
5. Democrats bad, Republicans good. Candidates don't matter.
6. Klitschkos = gods
7. Me Lyle... never wrong. Facts are irrevelant.
8. Give me my sipping bourbon while I sit on the porch of my plantation.


Then hell..... at least you gave it a try.

OK, and I'm sure all of that was meant in a non-racist tone right? Pretty special for you to take time out of your busy day to imply that I'm some kind of slave owner....but hey, I'm the extreme one right? I'm the "racist" one right? I'm the one that is irrational right?

I'm going to allow my blood pressure a chance to go down before further response

All kidding aside, did you even read the article? It's back on post 59.
It wouldn't hurt.
One of two outcomes:

"A", you might see the Arab-Israeli conflict with slightly different eyes,
which in turn might make you a bit more broad-minded on the subject.

Or...

"B", you read it but still choose not to agree,
and continue seeing the Arabs as the evil party in this whole conflict.



Either way, you'll have learned a bit more about the subject.

[El Kabong]

If you re-evaluate your views and come to the same conclusions as before:

1. Arabs bad, Jews good.
2. Guns good, control bad. Any control... don't give a shit.
3. Government aid bad, all recipients are moochers.
4. U.S. is center of universe.
5. Democrats bad, Republicans good. Candidates don't matter.
6. Klitschkos = gods
7. Me Lyle... never wrong. Facts are irrevelant.
8. Give me my sipping bourbon while I sit on the porch of my plantation.


Then hell..... at least you gave it a try.

OK, and I'm sure all of that was meant in a non-racist tone right? Pretty special for you to take time out of your busy day to imply that I'm some kind of slave owner....but hey, I'm the extreme one right? I'm the "racist" one right? I'm the one that is irrational right?

I'm going to allow my blood pressure a chance to go down before further response

All kidding aside, did you even read the article? It's back on post 59.
It wouldn't hurt.
One of two outcomes:

"A", you might see the Arab-Israeli conflict with slightly different eyes,
which in turn might make you a bit more broad-minded on the subject.

Or...

"B", you read it but still choose not to agree,
and continue seeing the Arabs as the evil party in this whole conflict.



Either way, you'll have learned a bit more about the subject.

Oh I'm sorry, I'm too busy whipping my slaves to read your article....does that fit your stereotype of me correctly?

[TitoFan]

If you re-evaluate your views and come to the same conclusions as before:

1. Arabs bad, Jews good.
2. Guns good, control bad. Any control... don't give a shit.
3. Government aid bad, all recipients are moochers.
4. U.S. is center of universe.
5. Democrats bad, Republicans good. Candidates don't matter.
6. Klitschkos = gods
7. Me Lyle... never wrong. Facts are irrevelant.
8. Give me my sipping bourbon while I sit on the porch of my plantation.


Then hell..... at least you gave it a try.

OK, and I'm sure all of that was meant in a non-racist tone right? Pretty special for you to take time out of your busy day to imply that I'm some kind of slave owner....but hey, I'm the extreme one right? I'm the "racist" one right? I'm the one that is irrational right?

I'm going to allow my blood pressure a chance to go down before further response

All kidding aside, did you even read the article? It's back on post 59.
It wouldn't hurt.
One of two outcomes:

"A", you might see the Arab-Israeli conflict with slightly different eyes,
which in turn might make you a bit more broad-minded on the subject.

Or...

"B", you read it but still choose not to agree,
and continue seeing the Arabs as the evil party in this whole conflict.



Either way, you'll have learned a bit more about the subject.

Oh I'm sorry, I'm too busy whipping my slaves to read your article....does that fit your stereotype of me correctly?

[Beanz]

@TitoFan I read the article you linked to and was expecting an unbiased, neutral and balanced discussion of the subject and was disappointed but not surprised to find an article full of inaccuracies and blatant dogerel and propaganda. Ignoring the fact that the presentation style was somewhat akin to a children's Encyclopedia you would still have to be a very ignorant and unread individual to fall for such nonsense and have your own agenda which is more about discrediting another poster than sharing facts.

[TitoFan]

@TitoFan I read the article you linked to and was expecting an unbiased, neutral and balanced discussion of the subject and was disappointed but not surprised to find an article full of inaccuracies and blatant dogerel and propaganda. Ignoring the fact that the presentation style was somewhat akin to a children's Encyclopedia you would still have to be a very ignorant and unread individual to fall for such nonsense and have your own agenda which is more about discrediting another poster than sharing facts.

@Greenbeanz I'm disappointed. It took you almost 24 hours to come running to Lyle's aid. But I knew you'd pop in sooner or later. Tell us, in your infinite wisdom... exactly WHAT are the inaccuracies you found in the article? And please be specific. It's quite easy to throw around accusations, as you're prone to do..... but it's another thing altogether to back them up with cold, hard facts. Exactly WHAT are the inaccuracies, Greenbeanz? And tell us.... what would you say is the agenda of a U.S.-born journalist, with no known Arab ties or interests.... and what would be her objective in putting out such "propaganda", as you so "wisely" put it, when these types of views obviously place her (and her other nonpartisan supporters) in a non-popular stance with the general U.S. population? You're good at throwing around accusations. Give me FACTS. Also... I want to know where you GET your facts. Spend much time in the Middle East, have you?

Bottom line here: You're so intent on kissing up, that you blatantly ignore the one-sided hatred toward Arabs that comes out of Lyle's mouth. I push an agenda of tolerance and understanding. Neither you, nor Lyle, nor I are qualified to judge an entire race of people solely based upon what we read in the newspapers. Oh, but THOSE are gospel, right Greenbeanz? Who's being the naive fool now, gramps?

Do me a favor. If you're going to persist in your blatant ass-kissing, you gotta come at me with a better job than that.

[TitoFan]

I’m getting just a tad fed up with your nonsense. You routinely bust into arguments you know nothing about. All you know is that Lyle is on Side A, and I’m on Side B. Lyle could be arguing that the moon is made of cheese, and you’d come running in, as long as it meant arguing against me. Are you sure you’re a grandfather? Typical grandfathers don’t display this type of juvenile behavior. Another way you display your childishness: Normal adults don’t feel the need to purposely “flower up” their writing with big words just to impress other people. Any of us can sit with a thesaurus and write something “flowery”. But your prose tends to bore and confuse people. You’re so intent on impressing, that you go on and on about nothing. It’s called “talking shit”.

I still remember your stupid comment about me “hedging my bets” and “keeping my options open” because I was making a point about not everything being “black and white”. And yet people do that every day. On some subjects, we have hard and fast opinions one way or the other… while on others we may have some ambivalence, or see things as “grayish”. It’s called “thought”. Try it sometime.

Of all the people I’ve argued with on this forum, you’re probably the lowest life form of all. I’d rather argue with someone who has his own opinion, which might not agree with mine… than argue with the little kid in the back, hiding behind the bully saying: “Yeah! What he said!” You can’t go it alone, so you hide behind the backs of those I argue with and talk your flowery shit and make unfounded statements. How can anyone respect such a low-lying troll?

You have the option to keep posting on how you and your missus get matching tattoos, or how you have this cool ponytail and ride your Harley ‘cause you’re a cool gramps. And you have the option to stay the hell away from the posts where I’m arguing with someone who has their own opinion. And if you’ve noticed, I’ve tried to stay away from your stupid posts and threads. But don’t think you’re going to get a free pass every time it suits your fancy to come in and do your famous ass-kissing. ‘Cause I’m gonna continue to bitch-slap you like the phony you are.

[Beanz]

@TitoFan I read the article you linked to and was expecting an unbiased, neutral and balanced discussion of the subject and was disappointed but not surprised to find an article full of inaccuracies and blatant dogerel and propaganda. Ignoring the fact that the presentation style was somewhat akin to a children's Encyclopedia you would still have to be a very ignorant and unread individual to fall for such nonsense and have your own agenda which is more about discrediting another poster than sharing facts.

@Greenbeanz I'm disappointed. It took you almost 24 hours to come running to Lyle's aid. But I knew you'd pop in sooner or later. Tell us, in your infinite wisdom... exactly WHAT are the inaccuracies you found in the article? And please be specific. It's quite easy to throw around accusations, as you're prone to do..... but it's another thing altogether to back them up with cold, hard facts. Exactly WHAT are the inaccuracies, Greenbeanz? And tell us.... what would you say is the agenda of a U.S.-born journalist, with no known Arab ties or interests.... and what would be her objective in putting out such "propaganda", as you so "wisely" put it, when these types of views obviously place her (and her other nonpartisan supporters) in a non-popular stance with the general U.S. population? You're good at throwing around accusations. Give me FACTS. Also... I want to know where you GET your facts. Spend much time in the Middle East, have you?

Bottom line here: You're so intent on kissing up, that you blatantly ignore the one-sided hatred toward Arabs that comes out of Lyle's mouth. I push an agenda of tolerance and understanding. Neither you, nor Lyle, nor I are qualified to judge an entire race of people solely based upon what we read in the newspapers. Oh, but THOSE are gospel, right Greenbeanz? Who's being the naive fool now, gramps?

Do me a favor. If you're going to persist in your blatant ass-kissing, you gotta come at me with a better job than that.

I noted your first contribution in the 59th post in this thread as well as your now familiar habit of presumptive posting in which you play the part of enlightened information gatherer amongst a sea of ignorant bigots. Whilst castigating Lyle for not reading your linked article I once again note your magical ability to display breathtaking intolerance and arrogance in assuming that any opinion you may not share is arrived at through belligerence and stupidity. The article you posted is written by Alison Weir an Extreme Anti-Israel activist responsible for this charming article

Israeli Organ Harvesting � Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

in which she asserts that Israel conducts organ harvesting from Palestinian prisoners. A creepy manifestation of medieval anti-Semitic fears like the idea of the blood libel, the charge that Jews ritually murdered gentiles and used their blood to cast spells, which was a mainstay of medieval European anti-Semitism. In Europe, the blood libel led to pogroms, mass slayings and expulsions. Never mind the fact that the source of her information was a discredited Swedish tabloid article.

The website itself set up and populated by Ms Weirs rhetoric is clearly informed by her own rampant aganda in which Israel is defined as a despotic tyrant and no rational argument supporting an opposing view takes place. Like yourself, Miles, Noam Chomsky, The Guardian and large parts of the so called liberal left it is a very self hating piece of outrage politics dependent on portraying things in a simplistic black and white manner in which there is only one right party and plenty of wronged innocents, for which it is easy to attract sympathy. Like Noam Ms Wier and the "If Americans Knew" website is a Jewish Concern established no doubt to assuage the guilt complex over an Ever expanding and aggressive Israeli policy. She quotes and adds credence to conspiracy theorists to back up her wild claims

"Dr. A. Clare Brandabur, an American professor, writes that information in the Swedish article resonated with reports she heard during the first intifada."

Brandabur who believes that 9/11 was a home grown government staged attack.

That enough FACTS for you? although you claim bizarrely that you "push an agenda of tolerance and understanding" you then accuse me of judging an entire race of people on what I read in the Newspapers? I have not once done that in this thread and have merely pointed to the hypocrisy of those blaming one side and ignoring the other.

[Beanz]

Lol.