Juan Manuel Marquez Tells Pacquiao To His Face Floyd Would Kick His Ass On ESPN First

[imp]

JMM is getting English down pretty well. It's unfortunate that more great Mexican fighters don't. Little Ricardo Lopez could have made millions more if he had learned English--not that they should have to do so, mind you; it's just that so much of the paying demographic speaks English, and likes to hear them directly without a translator.
If one bases their career on being the voice of a culture, i.e. Duran for Panama or Julio Chavez sr. for Mexico, then this may not apply.
However, on the main, it is a great marketing strategy to be able to talk directly to the largest chunk of ppv buyers without translation

Marquez does quite well with the english but for some reason i expected pac to be better.

[DavilaJones]

If I may ask a question to you all:

Let's say Mayweather fights Manny and win. Would this mean that he is the better or that his style suits him better to deal with an aggressive opponent? Styles do make fights. Frazier wasn't the greatest but he beat Ali.

I think it would of course be a mark of pride if one wins over the other but to say that the victor is superior wouldn't quite reflect the realities of boxing. Chavez was a damn great boxer but sweet pete spanked him, it takes nothing away from him.

[Master]

If I may ask a question to you all:

Let's say Mayweather fights Manny and win. Would this mean that he is the better or that his style suits him better to deal with an aggressive opponent? Styles do make fights. Frazier wasn't the greatest but he beat Ali.

I think it would of course be a mark of pride if one wins over the other but to say that the victor is superior wouldn't quite reflect the realities of boxing. Chavez was a damn great boxer but sweet pete spanked him, it takes nothing away from him.

Pac could have made it interesting a couple of years ago but now he would be countered silly by Floyd. Shame.

[imp]

If I may ask a question to you all:

Let's say Mayweather fights Manny and win. Would this mean that he is the better or that his style suits him better to deal with an aggressive opponent? Styles do make fights. Frazier wasn't the greatest but he beat Ali.

I think it would of course be a mark of pride if one wins over the other but to say that the victor is superior wouldn't quite reflect the realities of boxing. Chavez was a damn great boxer but sweet pete spanked him, it takes nothing away from him.

Pac could have made it interesting a couple of years ago but now he would be countered silly by Floyd. Shame.

It is a shame. But the same result would have prevailed.

Floyd and manny can fight till there 40!

Thats two fights a year and millions in the bank..they wont make that money anywhere else.

Manny wont last that long as he has no plan b in the ring..he cant adapt.

[imp]

The thing about pac is that you cant dislike him as a person.

Floyd can divide opinions..

Lets look at the advantages and disadvatages of each fighter:-

Pac:-

More powerful

Same speed?
Same stamina?

Floyd:-

Better defensive
Better boxer
Better accuracy
Better chin
Better reach
Better footwork
Better reflexes
Better resistance to cuts

Same speed?
Same stamina?

Without even being too biased to floyd this was easy.

Please dicuss.

Dont go quiet on me rantcatrat.

[imp]

Also, whether pac took peds or not the size of his head has increased by at least a fifth which is another disadvantage for floyd to exploit

[Beanflicker]

The whole "common opponent" thing really means nothing. Pac and Mayweather are different fighters. Manny is going to be more aggressive and KO more people. It is what it is.
You can't go by the old "A>B, C>A, so C>B" theory. Compare the common opponents of Ali and George Foreman in the same way, and you'd conclude that Ali wouldn't have made it past 2 rounds with George.

Styles make fights, and the thing that was the most telling for me was how Manny got outfoxed by Morales the first time and JMM. The things that these guy's used to give Manny fits, Floyd has and does better than both of them combined. Manny has a puncher's chance for sure, but conventional wisdom (IMO) always suggested that Floyd would be victorious.

But this is all academic at this point imo, because Floyd vs Manny will go down as one of boxing's biggest flubs. They blew the opportunity already. Back in 2009/early 2010, Manny looking like an unstoppable punching machine. Floyd looked as sharp and quick as ever.

Now, Manny has been beaten and looked lackluster in recent efforts. Whether or not you think Bradley won, you have to admit that Pac didn't look like a world beater by any stretch. And he got another gift against poor JMM. You even got Pac talking about retirement in the near future.

As far as Floyd goes, I think you can see that he is on the decline. His legs aren't what they used to be, and he's getting hit a lot more in recent fights. He's getting up there in age.

They had the opportunity to do this when both guys were peaking, where the hype was SO BIG that the winner would have an argument for the greatest of all time. It's still an interesting fight but it's lost a ton of luster.

[IamInuit]

The whole "common opponent" thing really means nothing. Pac and Mayweather are different fighters. Manny is going to be more aggressive and KO more people. It is what it is.
You can't go by the old "A>B, C>A, so C>B" theory. Compare the common opponents of Ali and George Foreman in the same way, and you'd conclude that Ali wouldn't have made it past 2 rounds with George.

Styles make fights, and the thing that was the most telling for me was how Manny got outfoxed by Morales the first time and JMM. The things that these guy's used to give Manny fits, Floyd has and does better than both of them combined. Manny has a puncher's chance for sure, but conventional wisdom (IMO) always suggested that Floyd would be victorious.

But this is all academic at this point imo, because Floyd vs Manny will go down as one of boxing's biggest flubs. They blew the opportunity already. Back in 2009/early 2010, Manny looking like an unstoppable punching machine. Floyd looked as sharp and quick as ever.

Now, Manny has been beaten and looked lackluster in recent efforts. Whether or not you think Bradley won, you have to admit that Pac didn't look like a world beater by any stretch. And he got another gift against poor JMM. You even got Pac talking about retirement in the near future.

As far as Floyd goes, I think you can see that he is on the decline. His legs aren't what they used to be, and he's getting hit a lot more in recent fights. He's getting up there in age.

They had the opportunity to do this when both guys were peaking, where the hype was SO BIG that the winner would have an argument for the greatest of all time. It's still an interesting fight but it's lost a ton of luster.

Great post.

[christianshreve]

For the rest of his life Floyd will have to deal with having caught the same fear factor virus that Roy Jones dealt with against Dariusz Michalczewski--he found a guy who spooked him and said no. Manny scared him into being unavailable. Whether or not we believe Floyd would have neutralized the combination machine that has been the pacman, Floyd was too scared to find out. Floyd could have been given the edge in every category, but he didn't think he could win, and the boxing fans could just suffer.
At his highest level, the most gifted froze like a 2nd grader at the edge of the local pool high dive. "No thanks, mister, I'm coming back down the ladder. Not because I'm scared of the dive, no sir. It's just that I've pooped my pants."
Mayweather's fear of Manny is phobic, and that means it is irrational as an elephant being scared of a mouse. Phobia's aren't rational, and we should let go of the fight and enjoy Pretty Boy Floyd's remaining excellence, even if he didn't overcome all of his personal demons. Hell, does anyone?

[christianshreve]

Outstanding question. Frazier was able to outwork Ali when Muhammad stopped moving. Ali was a runner, as a style, and Smokin' Joe fits the definition of what legendary trainer Kenny Weldon call a "fighter," meaning a pressure guy with good coordination between hands and feet who can force most movers out of their own rhythm over time.
Marquez is a stationary counter-fighter, while Floyd is a mobile counter fighter. All counter fighters are made to pick apart aggressive onrushing fighters.
In the book Money Boxing that comes out this week, style are broken down into a simple comparison of the child's game paper-rock-scissors.
In the book, a mobile counterpuncher beats a stationary one, which is what happened in the Mayweather-Marquez fight.
Mayweather likes to control distance and space, as his style dictates.
The tactical problem comes in when he is facing an opponent who advances faster than he is capable of retreating. Things get messy when that happens, style advantage or no.