Juan Manuel Marquez Tells Pacquiao To His Face Floyd Would Kick His Ass On ESPN First

[Beanflicker]

Agreed. ^ That's one thing that really baffles me. Roy was the undisputed #1 in the division, the #1 p4p in boxing. Who was Dariusz outside of Germany? If you want to be the best, you have to come fight the best. It made no sense for Roy to go over to Germany and risk getting robbed.

[Fenster]

Michalczewski was the lineal champ, the true champ, so Roy should have travelled to him. Why should the champ risk getting robbed in America?

[christianshreve]

No one can can doubt Floyd's ability to counter going forward or back.
If he hadn't hid from Manny he would be in Pernell Whitaker's class historically as well as physically.
Mayweather may not swing the counter right hard, but that straight pop makes everyone have to reset after he lands it.
As to Roy Jones, it does appear to have become common knowledge that Jones, with all his startling gifts, would have indeed moved to the moon rather than face Dariusz Michalczewski.
Can you imagine the Packers not showing up to the stadium one Sunday so they could avoid the Bears?
Unlikely, but some of our most gifted fist fighters think this a viable operating procedure.

[christianshreve]

I'm not opposed to disagreement on any point, and I'm not pasting Yahoo pages. This thread contains educated posters with compelling points. Forums like this enable people to enhance understanding.

[DavilaJones]

My point had nothing to do with the triangle theory in boxing. I merely asked what is the big deal if one loses to the other? No one can say "he's exposed as a phony" that's ridiculous and because of fans like that most boxers are so damn hesitant to take on challenges.

If one loses to the other, they'll still be a first ballot hall of famer. They'll still be considered one of the best fighters in this era. So really it will just be a point of bragging rights between the two and not the cataclysmal ending of careers and legacy that most people believed it to be.

Cotto vs Mayweather. Cotto lost absolutely nothing losing in that fight. He gained respect and adulation if anything. Did Oscar lose anything losing to Pacquiao? In my opinion he did not. So why is there so much built up, feigned or otherwise stake for the winner and loser of this 'super fight'?

I would personally applaude them both for fighting each other the same way I respect Carl Froch and Andre ward for fighting everyone under the sun in their division.

[Beanflicker]

Did Oscar lose anything losing to Pacquiao? In my opinion he did not.

Personally I think that was one of the most embarrassing big-fight losses I've ever seen. De La Hoya, a 154lber, got absolutey smashed by a guy who was fighting at 130 two fights before that.

The only saving grace for DLH was the excuses that he was washed up and probably weight drained.

[imp]

Did Oscar lose anything losing to Pacquiao? In my opinion he did not.

Personally I think that was one of the most embarrassing big-fight losses I've ever seen. De La Hoya, a 154lber, got absolutey smashed by a guy who was fighting at 130 two fights before that.

The only saving grace for DLH was the excuses that he was washed up and probably weight drained.

I agree, and its obvious he was weight drained.
Freddie roach said it many times he instantly saw what was happening.

[christianshreve]

I agree with both of you. There is a certain point a fighter can reach that makes them untouchable no matter what occurs in the late stages of a career, in terms of hall of fame consideration. At the highest peaks (say top 100 of a century) one almost gets nit-picky over the differences between them.
On the other point, I think Roy would have out-slicked Dariusz, but Jones didn't. It wasn't a promotional issue, as the traveling Roy Jones show went on for years without a competitive fight. Part of this has to be attributed to his Michael Jordan-esque athletic ability. The other, he hid from his senior challenge for years at light-heavy, until even his most ardent fans began to see him waving his belts around as disingenuous.

[Beanflicker]

Michalczewski was the lineal champ, the true champ, so Roy should have travelled to him. Why should the champ risk getting robbed in America?

Was Mariusz ranked higher than RJJ? The fighter makes the belt, not the other way around.

Roy was the undisputed #1 p4p. Roy was the big name of the two(figuratively, not literally obviously). As such, people should be coming for you, not the other way around.

I'm a Tiger fan for sure, but he would have gotten obliterated by Roy Jones of the late 90s/early 2000s.

[Fenster]

Michalczewski was the lineal champ, the true champ, so Roy should have travelled to him. Why should the champ risk getting robbed in America?

Was Mariusz ranked higher than RJJ? The fighter makes the belt, not the other way around.

Roy was the undisputed #1 p4p. Roy was the big name of the two(figuratively, not literally obviously). As such, people should be coming for you, not the other way around.

I'm a Tiger fan for sure, but he would have gotten obliterated by Roy Jones of the late 90s/early 2000s.

Michalczewski was THE champ. You can't get higher ranked than that. Yes fighters make the belt, and once you've established yourself as the legit no.1 belts are utterly meaningless.

I agree Roy was the better fighter, I agree Roy would have won, and I agree Roy was the mythical P4P best in the world.

However, he wasn't the true lightheavy champ. You can't just ignore an already established champion, becuase you're not willing to travel, and then claim to be the king because you pick up a couple of his leftover belts.

As the challenger the onus really was on Roy to make the fight not Michalczewski.

[imp]

Well darius must be the true p4p champ then. Roy didnt have time to weight for darius he was to busy winning heavyweight championships..was that less of a risk?

Darius was to busy trying to be next rocky marciano while roy was making history in multi weight divisons.

Roy already got the worst decision in history at the olympics you cant blame him for not wanting to travel when the most money can be made in america.

And lets not talk common opponents between these two as im sure its apparent who had the harder road..!

[Fenster]

Well darius must be the true p4p champ then. Roy didnt have time to weight for darius he was to busy winning heavyweight championships..was that less of a risk?

Darius was to busy trying to be next rocky marciano while roy was making history in multi weight divisons.

Roy already got the worst decision in history at the olympics you cant blame him for not wanting to travel when the most money can be made in america.

And lets not talk common opponents between these two as im sure its apparent who had the harder road..!

Roy couldn't wait for him? Michalczewski was lineal champ from 97 to 2003, Roy was a lightheavy from 97 to 2003 before facing Ruiz. And that heavyweight title is meaningless too, Lewis was the lineal champ, Ruiz just had a belt Lewis discarded.

P4P is decided by peoples opinion. There are no certainties or facts involved. You can be regarded the best fighter in the world and not even be a legit champion.

And having a bad decision go against you doesn't mean you get a free pass from ever leaving home again. Millions of fighters have been "robbed."

[imp]

Well darius must be the true p4p champ then. Roy didnt have time to weight for darius he was to busy winning heavyweight championships..was that less of a risk?

Darius was to busy trying to be next rocky marciano while roy was making history in multi weight divisons.

Roy already got the worst decision in history at the olympics you cant blame him for not wanting to travel when the most money can be made in america.

And lets not talk common opponents between these two as im sure its apparent who had the harder road..!

Roy couldn't wait for him? Michalczewski was lineal champ from 97 to 2003, Roy was a lightheavy from 97 to 2003 before facing Ruiz. And that heavyweight title is meaningless too, Lewis was the lineal champ, Ruiz just had a belt Lewis discarded.

P4P is decided by peoples opinion. There are no certainties or facts involved. You can be regarded the best fighter in the world and not even be a legit champion.

And having a bad decision go against you doesn't mean you get a free pass from ever leaving home again. Millions of fighters have been "robbed."

Fenster,

Moving up to heavyweight was still a great achievement regardless of the belt.

You already said you think roy was the better fighter and the mythical p4p best..why is there a need to make out roy ducked or feared darius?..we know the big money is in the states.

How is this relevant to marquez saying that floyd would beat pac.

[Beanflicker]

Michalczewski was THE champ. You can't get higher ranked than that. Yes fighters make the belt, and once you've established yourself as the legit no.1 belts are utterly meaningless.

I agree Roy was the better fighter, I agree Roy would have won, and I agree Roy was the mythical P4P best in the world.

However, he wasn't the true lightheavy champ. You can't just ignore an already established champion, becuase you're not willing to travel, and then claim to be the king because you pick up a couple of his leftover belts.

As the challenger the onus really was on Roy to make the fight not Michalczewski.

I can appreciate the fact that he was the linear champ, but what do belts really mean in boxing compared to public perception? Belts are treated like the tin they are for the most part; fighters willingly relinquish them, fighters are stripped for rediculous reasons, fighters have to fight illegitimate mandatories, ect ect. Favourable public perception isn't as easily attained.

It's all well and good that Dariusz had the linear title, but what good is a title if no one recognized him for it? Everyone looked at Roy Jones as the #1 LHW in the world for all those years. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just stating the facts. And who really needed that fight more? Roy Jones will go down as an all-time great. A belt holder in multiple weight divisions. Dariusz is a guy who, outside of Germany and Poland, only big boxing nuts really know or care about.

My point is that even though Mariusz had the title, he standed to gain a lot more with a win over Roy Jones than vice versa. And for that reason, he should have sucked it up and came over for his shot at greatness. Roy Jones didn't need him on his resume.

[Fenster]

Michalczewski was THE champ. You can't get higher ranked than that. Yes fighters make the belt, and once you've established yourself as the legit no.1 belts are utterly meaningless.

I agree Roy was the better fighter, I agree Roy would have won, and I agree Roy was the mythical P4P best in the world.

However, he wasn't the true lightheavy champ. You can't just ignore an already established champion, becuase you're not willing to travel, and then claim to be the king because you pick up a couple of his leftover belts.

As the challenger the onus really was on Roy to make the fight not Michalczewski.

I can appreciate the fact that he was the linear champ, but what do belts really mean in boxing compared to public perception? Belts are treated like the tin they are for the most part; fighters willingly relinquish them, fighters are stripped for rediculous reasons, fighters have to fight illegitimate mandatories, ect ect. Favourable public perception isn't as easily attained.

It's all well and good that Dariusz had the linear title, but what good is a title if no one recognized him for it? Everyone looked at Roy Jones as the #1 LHW in the world for all those years. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just stating the facts. And who really needed that fight more? Roy Jones will go down as an all-time great. A belt holder in multiple weight divisions. Dariusz is a guy who, outside of Germany and Poland, only big boxing nuts really know or care about.

My point is that even though Mariusz had the title, he standed to gain a lot more with a win over Roy Jones than vice versa. And for that reason, he should have sucked it up and came over for his shot at greatness. Roy Jones didn't need him on his resume.

I agree with you.

But this is a forum for boxing nerds (). Where else is this shit gonna get discussed