Judging a fighter's resume

[oakleyno1]

his resume is fine generally... but not when you see people saying how he could be the one to beat mayweather etc

truth is he has come very close to a loss earlier in his career and beaten european level fighters not world level (mosely etc are very much not world class anymore when he fought them)

essentially he is doing well but is imo nothing special...YET...perhaps in a few fights time. he has done nothing of note in honestly, but thats not a problem as hes so young...but it is when you start trying to match him against someone ten levels above anyone he has ever fought

[erics44]

his resume is fine generally... but not when you see people saying how he could be the one to beat mayweather etc

truth is he has come very close to a loss earlier in his career and beaten european level fighters not world level (mosely etc are very much not world class anymore when he fought them)

essentially he is doing well but is imo nothing special...YET...perhaps in a few fights time. he has done nothing of note in honestly, but thats not a problem as hes so young...but it is when you start trying to match him against someone ten levels above anyone he has ever fought

RECORD only gays say resume

[Fenster]

If the fighter hasn't got much amateur experience, it's understandable they have a ton of learning fights before stepping up. I believe Alvarez had around a dozen amateur fights and Chavez jr none.

Cotto, like most top fighters, had over 100.

[TitoFan]

But it skews their pro record. That's why you can't just compare a 50-0 record with a 30-3 record at face value. If you have no amateur experience, and bloat your professional record with 50 bums before facing anyone of merit, why should your record be compared with the 30-3 fighter who was fighting credible opposition by his 10th fight? I think it's pretty clear cut.

[Fenster]

What serious boxing fan doesn't rate quality over quantity when judging a fighters record? If the 50-0 fighter has fought a load of bums and the 30-3 fighter is proven world-class everyone will consider the latter superior.

Considering you only mentioned Canelo and Chavez Jr in your original post I guess this is about them.

If you chop the bottom half of Canelo's record off, for a 22-year-old, at 20-0, with a bunch of former world champions and challengers on his record it's still very impressive. And Chavez Jr, as weak as his overall record is, nearly knocked out a P4P star and the lineal middleweight champ.

So even if they have bloated records, they both proved themselves at world level.

[TitoFan]

No major disagreements on this topic. Maybe a couple of minor comments:

What serious boxing fan doesn't rate quality over quantity when judging a fighters record? If the 50-0 fighter has fought a load of bums and the 30-3 fighter is proven world-class everyone will consider the latter superior.

Not everyone. You and I and other serious boxing fans would... but there's others that would just look at the record at face value.

If you chop the bottom half of Canelo's record off, for a 22-year-old, at 20-0, with a bunch of former world champions and challengers on his record it's still very impressive.

No issues with that. Given Canelo's very young age, and even though the former world champions have been either over-the-hill or undersized... at 22 years old it's still impressive. To a point.

And Chavez Jr, as weak as his overall record is, nearly knocked out a P4P star and the lineal middleweight champ.

So even if they have bloated records, they both proved themselves at world level.

My major disagreement is over JCC Jr. Combine the extreme coddling and opponent handpicking... the doping issues, all designed to bring Junior in at twice the size of his opponent on fight night... the lack of discipline and thinking he's owed greatness because of his last name...

He was being thoroughly owned and schooled by the much smaller Martinez before catching him in the 11th round. Martinez still used his vastly superior boxing skills to weather the storm and finish the beating.

IMO, Junior has proved little except being a one-dimensional, undisciplined fighter with a good chin.

[IamInuit]

@TitoFan

Great topic and worthy of exploration. I always or at least try to approach resumes with caution but there are times when its pretty clear cut. Take the Moyer brothers for example. They have lots of loses but they fought everyone, anywhere and at times with a days notice. Gans finishes a fight and then jumps on a train to fight Langford the next evening. I think the main culprit surrounding this issue is the market. Only a few tv dates a year and you get one loss today and the chances of becoming a bankable prize fighter starts to diminish. Way to much emphasis on a loss today in my view.

Ray Leonards resume is a standout because he did not waste his better years fighting schleps and actually wanted a real legacy and he's got one. He would have never entertained fighting today's version of Roy Jones just to have his name on his resume.

And how about your countryman Wilfredo. Turned pro at 15 and then went on a 25 fight winning streak which he accomplished in just over a year and ending with a title shot at 17.

To me in many ways boxing has become somewhat of a reflection of the coddled world we live in. I mean last summer I saw children playing in a sandbox wearing helmets.

I don't really buy the notion that these people a babied because they have no amateur experience. Zarate only had about 30 amateur fights and most Mexican fighters have little or no experience in the amateurs. The same can be said about most Latin American countries as kids turn pro at age 15 and in many cases out of necessity.

Lopez had fewer then 20 and so did Duran

Qawi None
Moore None
Conn None
Manny None
Marciano None
Toney about 30
Foreman just over 20 I think

Good stuff Tfan