Judging a fighter's resume

[Fenster]

I don't really buy the notion that these people a babied because they have no amateur experience. Zarate only had about 30 amateur fights and most Mexican fighters have little or no experience in the amateurs. The same can be said about most Latin American countries as kids turn pro at age 15 and in many cases out of necessity.

Lopez had fewer then 20 and so did Duran

Qawi None
Moore None
Conn None
Manny None
Marciano None
Toney about 30
Foreman just over 20 I think

Good stuff Tfan

Manny (lots) and Marciano both had amateur fights.

Most of those fighters had around 30 fights before getting a "world" title shot, which puts them in the same ball park as the two fighters originally mentioned. Lack of amateur experience/lots of pro fights seems pretty common.

[TitoFan]

Read post 10. Not only are they not in the same ball park.
They're not even in the same planet.

[Fenster]

Read post 10. Not only are they not in the same ball park.
They're not even in the same planet.

Alvarez had 30+ fights before fighting for a "world" title. Chavez jr 40+ fights.

Moore, Marciano, Conn and Zarate had 40+ plus fights before a "world" title shot.
Foreman had 30+
Duran near 30
Pac 25+
Toney 25+

For sure this era is different, with multi champions, but it shows there's nothing new about fighters having loads of contests before getting to the top. What's the big deal?

[TitoFan]

Read post 10. Not only are they not in the same ball park.
They're not even in the same planet.

Alvarez had 30+ fights before fighting for a "world" title. Chavez jr 40+ fights.

Moore, Marciano, Conn and Zarate had 40+ plus fights before a "world" title shot.
Foreman had 30+
Duran near 30
Pac 25+
Toney 25+

For sure this era is different, with multi champions, but it shows there's nothing new about fighters having loads of contests before getting to the top. What's the big deal?

Yes there's a lot of "in-between", but you got your extremes as well. Chavez Jr as you said had 40+ fights before fighting a world-class fighter for a championship. I pointed out other fighters that were fighting world-class opposition before their 20th fight. If nothing else, it supports my point that fighters like JCC Jr are coddled beyond belief... and their W-L record is pretty much meaningless.

[Fenster]

Read post 10. Not only are they not in the same ball park.
They're not even in the same planet.

Alvarez had 30+ fights before fighting for a "world" title. Chavez jr 40+ fights.

Moore, Marciano, Conn and Zarate had 40+ plus fights before a "world" title shot.
Foreman had 30+
Duran near 30
Pac 25+
Toney 25+

For sure this era is different, with multi champions, but it shows there's nothing new about fighters having loads of contests before getting to the top. What's the big deal?

Yes there's a lot of "in-between", but you got your extremes as well. Chavez Jr as you said had 40+ fights before fighting a world-class fighter for a championship. I pointed out other fighters that were fighting world-class opposition before their 20th fight. If nothing else, it supports my point that fighters like JCC Jr are coddled beyond belief... and their W-L record is pretty much meaningless.

You're comparing him with all-time great fighters though. I highly doubt Chavez jr will ever get close to that level (it's a cert he wont).

Obviously great fighters can be stepped up in class quicker.

I'm not sure what your point/argument is - I guess you need someone that thinks Chavez Jr is already great and has a great resume. Good luck with that.

[Violent Demise]

Read post 10. Not only are they not in the same ball park.
They're not even in the same planet.

Alvarez had 30+ fights before fighting for a "world" title. Chavez jr 40+ fights.

Moore, Marciano, Conn and Zarate had 40+ plus fights before a "world" title shot.
Foreman had 30+
Duran near 30
Pac 25+
Toney 25+

For sure this era is different, with multi champions, but it shows there's nothing new about fighters having loads of contests before getting to the top. What's the big deal?

Yes there's a lot of "in-between", but you got your extremes as well. Chavez Jr as you said had 40+ fights before fighting a world-class fighter for a championship. I pointed out other fighters that were fighting world-class opposition before their 20th fight. If nothing else, it supports my point that fighters like JCC Jr are coddled beyond belief... and their W-L record is pretty much meaningless.

Seriously it's that hard for you to figure out? All the fighters you named that fought world-class opposition had amatuer backgrounds. Chavez did not. What Cotto, De La Hoya and the rest learned as amatuers, Chavez learned as a pro. It's not being coddled it's on the job training.

[TitoFan]

Read post 10. Not only are they not in the same ball park.
They're not even in the same planet.

Alvarez had 30+ fights before fighting for a "world" title. Chavez jr 40+ fights.

Moore, Marciano, Conn and Zarate had 40+ plus fights before a "world" title shot.
Foreman had 30+
Duran near 30
Pac 25+
Toney 25+

For sure this era is different, with multi champions, but it shows there's nothing new about fighters having loads of contests before getting to the top. What's the big deal?

Yes there's a lot of "in-between", but you got your extremes as well. Chavez Jr as you said had 40+ fights before fighting a world-class fighter for a championship. I pointed out other fighters that were fighting world-class opposition before their 20th fight. If nothing else, it supports my point that fighters like JCC Jr are coddled beyond belief... and their W-L record is pretty much meaningless.

Seriously it's that hard for you to figure out? All the fighters you named that fought world-class opposition had amatuer backgrounds. Chavez did not. What Cotto, De La Hoya and the rest learned as amatuers, Chavez learned as a pro. It's not being coddled it's on the job training.

I get the "no-amateur" background stuff. I just continue to point out that these pro records are misleading. They cannot be compared solely on the basis of numbers.

[Violent Demise]

Read post 10. Not only are they not in the same ball park.
They're not even in the same planet.

Alvarez had 30+ fights before fighting for a "world" title. Chavez jr 40+ fights.

Moore, Marciano, Conn and Zarate had 40+ plus fights before a "world" title shot.
Foreman had 30+
Duran near 30
Pac 25+
Toney 25+

For sure this era is different, with multi champions, but it shows there's nothing new about fighters having loads of contests before getting to the top. What's the big deal?

Yes there's a lot of "in-between", but you got your extremes as well. Chavez Jr as you said had 40+ fights before fighting a world-class fighter for a championship. I pointed out other fighters that were fighting world-class opposition before their 20th fight. If nothing else, it supports my point that fighters like JCC Jr are coddled beyond belief... and their W-L record is pretty much meaningless.

Seriously it's that hard for you to figure out? All the fighters you named that fought world-class opposition had amatuer backgrounds. Chavez did not. What Cotto, De La Hoya and the rest learned as amatuers, Chavez learned as a pro. It's not being coddled it's on the job training.

I get the "no-amateur" background stuff. I just continue to point out that these pro records are misleading. They cannot be compared solely on the basis of numbers.

Who compares them?

[Rantcatrat]

With regard to Canelo, in my opinion, he should fight Cotto next, as opposed to Austin Trout because it's a gradual progression of better quality opponents. So far, he hasn't been in a fight remotely close to being an even fight on paper and he hasn't faced anyone in the top ten in his division. To go from that to Austin Trout seems like a jump that could end in disaster. He needs to face a guy from the bottom of the top ten next like Gabriel Rosado, James Kirkland or Zaurbek Baysangurov, and then move onto Austin Trout, Erislandy Lara, or Vanes Martirosyan.

[Beanz]

It is both true and obvious that you can not, and should not compare a fighters record at face value. Cotto fought his 8th pro fight as a 22 year old, El Canelo was 16 his opponent was 21.

[IamInuit]

I don't really buy the notion that these people a babied because they have no amateur experience. Zarate only had about 30 amateur fights and most Mexican fighters have little or no experience in the amateurs. The same can be said about most Latin American countries as kids turn pro at age 15 and in many cases out of necessity.

Lopez had fewer then 20 and so did Duran

Qawi None
Moore None
Conn None
Manny None
Marciano None
Toney about 30
Foreman just over 20 I think

Good stuff Tfan

Manny (lots) and Marciano both had amateur fights.

Most of those fighters had around 30 fights before getting a "world" title shot, which puts them in the same ball park as the two fighters originally mentioned. Lack of amateur experience/lots of pro fights seems pretty common.

Forgot about Manny for some reason and must of had a vapour lock and its claimed that Marciano had around 12 but there is some dispute.