Juan Manuel Marquez, clean or not?

[GAME]

Wouldnt surprise me if he was roided cu so much more powerful than he was vs Fedchecnko afew months earlier and that doesnt happen naturally at 40 but team Pac should have stipulated random testing if they had concerns.

[Beanflicker]

he said he's for olympic style testing.

Olympic style testing can be cheated.

This day and age, unless you're truly niave, you have to acknowledge the fact that your favorite boxers either ARE or HAVE used some type of banned performance enhancer. The tests have been proven to be HIGHLY cheatable, so not pissing hot is not really a strong indicator.

Whether JMM is using or not has no relevance in the Pac fight, however, because Pac is probably the most suspect guy in boxing when it comes to PED usage.

[armin]

Could it be that pacs chin is just slowly giving in Not like he's been a defensive genius in his career, hell its also not like marquez never hurt him before. Plus it was a perfect punch with many already going forward so that only enhanced the impact.

[Beanflicker]

Plus it was a perfect punch with many already going forward so that only enhanced the impact.

That's the thing. Pac has been hit hard before, but how many times has he been hit that cleanly, with that big of a bomb, coming in that hard? Perfect punch, I doubt many (if any) around that weight would have been able to take that shot.

[Kirkland Laing]

I enjoyed seeing Pacquiao go down the way he did but at the same time the first time I saw Juan Ma ripped I had started to wonder what was going on. To have that shady conditioning coach in his corner and all. I really really really hope there are no surprises coming December 17th when the results are up. What do you guys think?

Juan Manuel Marquez says "I am a clean fighter," according to report - ESPN

he said he's for olympic style testing.

So why not do it then? If you're going to hire a guy who is a known steroid dealer and you suddenly start looking like a Mexican Arnold Schwarzenegger then people are going to ask questions.

None of these guys are for Olympic-style drug testing, not even Mayweather. All they have to do to undergo Olympic-style testing -- that's 24/7, 365 days a year, not just in the two month buildup to a fight like Mayweather has started doing -- is to let VADA test them. VADA will do it for free, it won't cost them a penny. VADA were the people who caught Peterson and Berto.

The only boxer who has signed up with VADA is Donaire. That's it.

Drug testing by the Las Vegas commission and other state commissions is more of an IQ test than a drug test. Even the head guy at Vegas admits passing it is as easy as crossing the street. It's only a piss test on the night of the fight, you'd have to be a complete idiot to fail it.

[erics44]

I doubt more than 5% of all professional fighters are clean.

i actually think 5% of all fighters might be a bit low

im sure there are many a journey man and low level fighter who are clean

once you get to a certain level tho I agree with you

[erics44]

ive been to mexico and you can buy steriods in most chemists

they are advertised on the windows

im not sure if there are any additional rules once you get in the chemist and ask for them mind

[AdamGB]

I enjoyed seeing Pacquiao go down the way he did but at the same time the first time I saw Juan Ma ripped I had started to wonder what was going on. To have that shady conditioning coach in his corner and all. I really really really hope there are no surprises coming December 17th when the results are up. What do you guys think?

Juan Manuel Marquez says "I am a clean fighter," according to report - ESPN

he said he's for olympic style testing.

So why not do it then? If you're going to hire a guy who is a known steroid dealer and you suddenly start looking like a Mexican Arnold Schwarzenegger then people are going to ask questions.

None of these guys are for Olympic-style drug testing, not even Mayweather. All they have to do to undergo Olympic-style testing -- that's 24/7, 365 days a year, not just in the two month buildup to a fight like Mayweather has started doing -- is to let VADA test them. VADA will do it for free, it won't cost them a penny. VADA were the people who caught Peterson and Berto.

The only boxer who has signed up with VADA is Donaire. That's it.

Drug testing by the Las Vegas commission and other state commissions is more of an IQ test than a drug test. Even the head guy at Vegas admits passing it is as easy as crossing the street. It's only a piss test on the night of the fight, you'd have to be a complete idiot to fail it.

Did you forget who JMM was fighting? Why take the tests that your opponent won't? Roach raised his concerns, not Marquez so the onus falls on Roach to request them, not Marquez's camp.

[Kirkland Laing]

This guy is probably the top boxing journalist. He wrote Ali's biography and he just wrote these two articles on PEDs. PEDs are going to become the biggest issue in boxing at some point so it's good to know what the situation is :

Max Boxing - News - The PED Mess: Part One

Max Boxing - News - The PED Mess: Part Two

[Kirkland Laing]

I enjoyed seeing Pacquiao go down the way he did but at the same time the first time I saw Juan Ma ripped I had started to wonder what was going on. To have that shady conditioning coach in his corner and all. I really really really hope there are no surprises coming December 17th when the results are up. What do you guys think?

Juan Manuel Marquez says "I am a clean fighter," according to report - ESPN

he said he's for olympic style testing.

So why not do it then? If you're going to hire a guy who is a known steroid dealer and you suddenly start looking like a Mexican Arnold Schwarzenegger then people are going to ask questions.

None of these guys are for Olympic-style drug testing, not even Mayweather. All they have to do to undergo Olympic-style testing -- that's 24/7, 365 days a year, not just in the two month buildup to a fight like Mayweather has started doing -- is to let VADA test them. VADA will do it for free, it won't cost them a penny. VADA were the people who caught Peterson and Berto.

The only boxer who has signed up with VADA is Donaire. That's it.

Drug testing by the Las Vegas commission and other state commissions is more of an IQ test than a drug test. Even the head guy at Vegas admits passing it is as easy as crossing the street. It's only a piss test on the night of the fight, you'd have to be a complete idiot to fail it.

Did you forget who JMM was fighting? Why take the tests that your opponent won't? Roach raised his concerns, not Marquez so the onus falls on Roach to request them, not Marquez's camp.

I think both guys are taking them. The onus is on every top boxer. If you're being accused of cheating it's the easiest thing in the world to put that to bed. You can sign up with VADA. If you're earning what these guys are you can pay a company to random test you once a week out of your own pocket and it's just a training expense. But it'd prove you were clean. Employing a known steroid dealer and putting that kind of muscle on at 39 while you're doing hours of cardio every day and then volunteering to take any test the week of the fight is just taking the piss.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

he said he's for olympic style testing.

Olympic style testing can be cheated.

This day and age, unless you're truly niave, you have to acknowledge the fact that your favorite boxers either ARE or HAVE used some type of banned performance enhancer. The tests have been proven to be HIGHLY cheatable, so not pissing hot is not really a strong indicator.

Whether JMM is using or not has no relevance in the Pac fight, however, because Pac is probably the most suspect guy in boxing when it comes to PED usage.

So let's not bother with anything then

[Beanflicker]

So let's not bother with anything then

I'm just stating facts. People are falsely believing that Olympic style testing (and the "olympic style testing" that gets brought up in boxing isn't even true Olympic-style testing) is going to be the magic bullet that cleans up the sport, and that's just not realistic.

[DavilaJones]

I agree that any test can be cheated out of but however the filter makes it harder for most to get away with cheating. You can't ever have full proof but god damn VADA is so much better than USADA that its just saddening.

As for JMM cheating, I can't ever say he wasn't because for all he knew he could have been taking a protein shake and not knowing what it was, or he knew, or it was just a protein shake..see where I'm going with this?

Who knows, its not like he was lighting quick and in the 11th round he was still a bundle of energy, his punch output was generally less than normal and he was pivoting his shoulders and hips into his right hand ala Hearns.

[RussellScott]

innocent until proven dopey

[Beanflicker]

The fact is that it's just not realistic for a 40 year old man to make that kind of physical improvement.

Your natural testosterone level starts dropping when you hit your 30s. And that's for your average Joe.

Boxers have it worse, because it's found that with all the punches they take to the head, their pineal gland is damaged and their testosterone levels end up being similar to a much older man's.

Do I think a 40 year old man who has taken over 20 years of blows to the head can put on that much muscle naturally, all the while undergoing an incredibly taxing cardiovascular training camp? No, I don't believe that for a second.