Juan Manuel Marquez, clean or not?

[RussellScott]

Were PED's used by the MARQUEZ camp? An in-depth discussion in this interview with Steve Kim of Maxboxing.com

[erics44]

The fact is that it's just not realistic for a 40 year old man to make that kind of physical improvement.

Your natural testosterone level starts dropping when you hit your 30s. And that's for your average Joe.

Boxers have it worse, because it's found that with all the punches they take to the head, their pineal gland is damaged and their testosterone levels end up being similar to a much older man's.

Do I think a 40 year old man who has taken over 20 years of blows to the head can put on that much muscle naturally, all the while undergoing an incredibly taxing cardiovascular training camp? No, I don't believe that for a second.

i have a few points to make

once you reach your mid 20s its very hard to put on muscle at any rate so if it was lean muscle we were looking at, even tho he is with the best trainers and under the best conditions you can get for putting on muscle, i find it hard to believe

having said that, it may not have been lean muscle, he has put on a fair bit of weight but it could have been fat in the right places

sounds daft i know but i have gone through periods of body building, the idea is you bulk then cut, so eat loads put on loads of fat and some muscle then get rid of the fat

each time i started to bulk i started to look much more muscular even tho much of what i was putting on was fat

having said all that, i think he was on steriods just as i think pac was at least around the time of the cotto fight

[beenKOed]

Plus it was a perfect punch with many already going forward so that only enhanced the impact.

That's the thing. Pac has been hit hard before, but how many times has he been hit that cleanly, with that big of a bomb, coming in that hard? Perfect punch, I doubt many (if any) around that weight would have been able to take that shot.

The first right hand was beautiful too!

Here is what I think happened and I'am not making an excuse for Manny or trying take anything away from Marquez.

The first KD of Manny was a real surprise for all of us especially Manny. Manny recovered and was doing better than Marquez. He was trying to erase that KD from everyone's mind by doing everything possible to win or steal every round, like every fighter does. The ten second warning had sounded and Manny went to work to ensure a close or winning round. He got careless and Marquez was waiting.

He was outsmarted, you could almost say he KOed himself.

That punch Marquez threw was as good as you'll ever see! It was beautiful, it was perfect and it was devastating.

[Kirkland Laing]

I agree with Beanflicker saying even the best drug testing can be beaten. Even if somebody doing 24/7, 365 random testing tests negative it doesn'ty mean he really is. But it definitely makes it harder for cheats to cheat.

Donaire, who is the only boxer doing random 24/7 365 testing asked Arce to do random testing under VADA for this fight. Arce declined to do so. Arce's strength coach is Angel Hernandez/Herdedia, the same guy JMM uses.

[ono]

Nope. He drinks his own piss like a tramp. Tramps are dirty.

[ryanman]

Nope. He drinks his own piss like a tramp. Tramps are dirty.

........It's Ono ladies and gentlemen

He's here all week folks.

[Chino]

Donaire, who is the only boxer doing random 24/7 365 testing asked Arce to do random testing under VADA for this fight. Arce declined to do so. Arce's strength coach is Angel Hernandez/Herdedia, the same guy JMM uses.

No way, really? Please share the link that talks about this.

Was Arce also afraid of needles, blood makes him nervous, he gets weakened and cannot train properly, he’s superticious, etc.?

[Second2None]

If heredia is arces' s&c coach...then damn. I wouldn't be surprise if their is an upset. Arce is one of my favorite fighters. Would be ashamed if this is true.

[Chino]

I want to see the most current pictures of Jorge Arce. If he’s ripped then I don’t know what to say.

[Gonzo13]

Here's an interesting video on YT. Listen to the question@10:10. Then the response JMM gives through his interpreter. Then@12:33 of the vid, Heredia is asked a question about testing.

[Gonzo13]

Freddie Roach Accuses Juan Manuel Marquez of PEDs Use - Yahoo! Sports

By Paul Magno | Yahoo! Contributor Network – Wed, Nov 28, 2012 1:35 AM EST
Email

COMMENTARY | Scoring controversies and an 8-year professional rivalry may have to take a back seat to a new bit of nastiness in the days leading to Manny Pacquiao's fourth bout with Juan Manuel Marquez on December 8. This time, Pacquiao's trainer, Freddie Roach has spoken up, expressing his concerns that the 39-year-old Mexican is employing performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) to prepare himself for the upcoming contest.
"If [his body] is natural, I will kiss his ass," Roach told USA Today. "[Marquez] has gotten bigger and gained weight - it throws up a red flag. I've been accused so many times of my fighters being on steroids (that) I hate to accuse other people. But it is part of our life, part of the world we live in."
Roach's suspicions have been amplified due to Marquez's continued work with Angel "Memo" Hernandez, the strength and conditioning coach who had supplied track stars Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery with PEDs and later testified on behalf of the federal government during the BALCO drug trial in 2011.
While the increase in Marquez's muscle mass is clearly evident in recent photos taken from his training camp, there is nothing other than Roach's own personal observations to offer up as proof of something less than legal.
For the record, Marquez denies the use of any illegal substances and Alex Ariza, Manny Pacquiao's own strength and conditioning coach also brushed off the possibility of something out of sorts, telling USA Today, "Memo is brilliant - I don't have any suspicions."
Ironically, accusations of PEDs use aimed at Manny Pacquiao by Floyd Mayweather eventually led to the end of negotiations for a Pacquiao-Mayweather bout and brought about a now-settled lawsuit for defamation against Mayweather and members of his family by Pacquiao. The accusations and subsequent scandal indirectly brought about a recent rash of voluntary pre-fight testing that has seen fighters Andre Berto and Lamont Peterson test positive for banned substances.
Roach has been known for making headline-grabbing, antagonistic statements prior to Pacquiao's bouts. It has to be considered part of the process as trainer, working to get into the head of an opponent and offering up distractions for the enemy. Since Manny refuses to engage in these mind games and media feuds, the job has fallen to Roach, who has been quite good at it.
But accusations like he made against Marquez go beyond what normally passes for pre-fight psychological maneuverings. An accusation of PEDs use completely destroys a fighter's reputation and diminishes his legacy. Worst of all, with the ill-equipped and outdated testing protocol employed by the Nevada State Athletic Commission, there's no real way of proving Marquez's guilt or innocence. Since many of the new PEDs being employed aren't subject to commission screening, tossing out accusations will create permanent uncertainty about anything Marquez may do against Pacquiao on December 8 or in any subsequent fight he may have.
Roach should know this better than anyone else, as his fighter's reputation has been dragged through the mud for the better part of three years following similar, albeit more crudely stated, accusations. To this day, Manny Pacquiao is labeled a drug cheat by a good number of fans, without ever actually having tested positive for a banned substance.
Ideally, if Roach had concerns about Juan Manuel Marquez and Memo Hernandez, a deal could've been made for both fighters to undergo true random blood testing by an independent screening agency in the weeks leading up to the fight. Instead, Roach decided to toss out an unsubstantiated accusation with less than two weeks to go before the fight.
It was wrong to engage in rumor-mongering against Pacquiao and it's wrong to do it to Marquez.

[IamInuit]

I agree with Beanflicker saying even the best drug testing can be beaten. Even if somebody doing 24/7, 365 random testing tests negative it doesn'ty mean he really is. But it definitely makes it harder for cheats to cheat.

Donaire, who is the only boxer doing random 24/7 365 testing asked Arce to do random testing under VADA for this fight. Arce declined to do so. Arce's strength coach is Angel Hernandez/Herdedia, the same guy JMM uses.

But that's guilt by association Kirk. Honestly bud every strength and conditioning coach at this level today is well aware and up to speed on modern day chemistry. Now do we then conclude all are cheating because testing is so shallow? Again if so then its an even playing field. The boxing powers at be should have a testing manifesto for at least tin bashing. Random testing for all title fights. Paid for by the fab 4 parasites that create another belt every other year in order to collect more sanctioning fees.

They don't want random testing and neither does any promoter. Why is that? Economics.

[Addicted to_boxing]

Freddie Roach Accuses Juan Manuel Marquez of PEDs Use - Yahoo! Sports

By Paul Magno | Yahoo! Contributor Network – Wed, Nov 28, 2012 1:35 AM EST
Email

COMMENTARY | Scoring controversies and an 8-year professional rivalry may have to take a back seat to a new bit of nastiness in the days leading to Manny Pacquiao's fourth bout with Juan Manuel Marquez on December 8. This time, Pacquiao's trainer, Freddie Roach has spoken up, expressing his concerns that the 39-year-old Mexican is employing performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) to prepare himself for the upcoming contest.
"If [his body] is natural, I will kiss his ass," Roach told USA Today. "[Marquez] has gotten bigger and gained weight - it throws up a red flag. I've been accused so many times of my fighters being on steroids (that) I hate to accuse other people. But it is part of our life, part of the world we live in."
Roach's suspicions have been amplified due to Marquez's continued work with Angel "Memo" Hernandez, the strength and conditioning coach who had supplied track stars Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery with PEDs and later testified on behalf of the federal government during the BALCO drug trial in 2011.
While the increase in Marquez's muscle mass is clearly evident in recent photos taken from his training camp, there is nothing other than Roach's own personal observations to offer up as proof of something less than legal.
For the record, Marquez denies the use of any illegal substances and Alex Ariza, Manny Pacquiao's own strength and conditioning coach also brushed off the possibility of something out of sorts, telling USA Today, "Memo is brilliant - I don't have any suspicions."
Ironically, accusations of PEDs use aimed at Manny Pacquiao by Floyd Mayweather eventually led to the end of negotiations for a Pacquiao-Mayweather bout and brought about a now-settled lawsuit for defamation against Mayweather and members of his family by Pacquiao. The accusations and subsequent scandal indirectly brought about a recent rash of voluntary pre-fight testing that has seen fighters Andre Berto and Lamont Peterson test positive for banned substances.
Roach has been known for making headline-grabbing, antagonistic statements prior to Pacquiao's bouts. It has to be considered part of the process as trainer, working to get into the head of an opponent and offering up distractions for the enemy. Since Manny refuses to engage in these mind games and media feuds, the job has fallen to Roach, who has been quite good at it.
But accusations like he made against Marquez go beyond what normally passes for pre-fight psychological maneuverings. An accusation of PEDs use completely destroys a fighter's reputation and diminishes his legacy. Worst of all, with the ill-equipped and outdated testing protocol employed by the Nevada State Athletic Commission, there's no real way of proving Marquez's guilt or innocence. Since many of the new PEDs being employed aren't subject to commission screening, tossing out accusations will create permanent uncertainty about anything Marquez may do against Pacquiao on December 8 or in any subsequent fight he may have.
Roach should know this better than anyone else, as his fighter's reputation has been dragged through the mud for the better part of three years following similar, albeit more crudely stated, accusations. To this day, Manny Pacquiao is labeled a drug cheat by a good number of fans, without ever actually having tested positive for a banned substance.
Ideally, if Roach had concerns about Juan Manuel Marquez and Memo Hernandez, a deal could've been made for both fighters to undergo true random blood testing by an independent screening agency in the weeks leading up to the fight. Instead, Roach decided to toss out an unsubstantiated accusation with less than two weeks to go before the fight.
It was wrong to engage in rumor-mongering against Pacquiao and it's wrong to do it to Marquez.

In addition both Pac and JMM are Top Rank fighters

[Addicted to_boxing]

Donaire, who is the only boxer doing random 24/7 365 testing asked Arce to do random testing under VADA for this fight. Arce declined to do so. Arce's strength coach is Angel Hernandez/Herdedia, the same guy JMM uses.

No way, really? Please share the link that talks about this.

Was Arce also afraid of needles, blood makes him nervous, he gets weakened and cannot train properly, he’s superticious, etc.?

Interesting because Arce is one tough guy and Nonito has shown an ability to be hit hard recently. We could be witnessing another upset

[Kirkland Laing]

Donaire, who is the only boxer doing random 24/7 365 testing asked Arce to do random testing under VADA for this fight. Arce declined to do so. Arce's strength coach is Angel Hernandez/Herdedia, the same guy JMM uses.

No way, really? Please share the link that talks about this.

Was Arce also afraid of needles, blood makes him nervous, he gets weakened and cannot train properly, he’s superticious, etc.?

Donaire said he asked Arce when the fight was made if he would agree to accept the Olympic-style testing that Donaire has been doing. Arce declined, though Heredia said prior to the Pacquiao-Marquez fight that all fighters he works with going forward will undergo such testing.

Nonito Donaire closing in on Fighter of the Year with no-nonsense, clean approach to boxing - Yahoo! Sports