Addressing the PED problem

[Kirkland Laing]

It was recently estimated by VADA that roughly 375 UFC fighters could be random blood and urine tested twice each year, with annual costs of somewhere between $1 to 1.5 million dollars.

Max Boxing - News - Azad Championship Report - Floyd Mayweather and the new wave of drug testing in boxing

Test the top-rated thousand boxers a dozen times a year and it's less than twenty million a year. Pay for it by billing each individual promotion on a sliding scale depending on how much the promotion makes in revenue (obviously Pac Marquez 4 pays a huge slice compared to some non-TV event that features some of the top thousand boxers) and it would work out as a really small promotional expense.

[Beanflicker]

It was recently estimated by VADA that roughly 375 UFC fighters could be random blood and urine tested twice each year, with annual costs of somewhere between $1 to 1.5 million dollars.

Max Boxing - News - Azad Championship Report - Floyd Mayweather and the new wave of drug testing in boxing

Test the top-rated thousand boxers a dozen times a year and it's less than twenty million a year. Pay for it by billing each individual promotion on a sliding scale depending on how much the promotion makes in revenue (obviously Pac Marquez 4 pays a huge slice compared to some non-TV event that features some of the top thousand boxers) and it would work out as a really small promotional expense.

Who's going to agree to cough up millions like that?

Also, what's to stop a fighter from simply refusing to take random drug tests?

[Kirkland Laing]

It was recently estimated by VADA that roughly 375 UFC fighters could be random blood and urine tested twice each year, with annual costs of somewhere between $1 to 1.5 million dollars.

Max Boxing - News - Azad Championship Report - Floyd Mayweather and the new wave of drug testing in boxing

Test the top-rated thousand boxers a dozen times a year and it's less than twenty million a year. Pay for it by billing each individual promotion on a sliding scale depending on how much the promotion makes in revenue (obviously Pac Marquez 4 pays a huge slice compared to some non-TV event that features some of the top thousand boxers) and it would work out as a really small promotional expense.

Who's going to agree to cough up millions like that?

Also, what's to stop a fighter from simply refusing to take random drug tests?

The promotion last weekend grossed well over a hundred million dollars. The US boxing industry grosses billions of dollars a year, never mind the global take. Let's say that the US boxing industry only grosses two billion dollars a year and decides to fund testing for the top thousand boxers. Firstly, testing on that scale would probably significantly reduce the twenty million cost but let's stay at twenty. That's one percent of the gross, and in reality would be much less than one percent.

If a fighter refuses testing treat him the same way any other athlete who refuses testing is treated.

[Beanflicker]

The promotion last weekend grossed well over a hundred million dollars. The US boxing industry grosses billions of dollars a year, never mind the global take. Let's say that the US boxing industry only grosses two billion dollars a year and decides to fund testing for the top thousand boxers. Firstly, testing on that scale would probably significantly reduce the twenty million cost but let's stay at twenty. That's one percent of the gross, and in reality would be much less than one percent.

If a fighter refuses testing treat him the same way any other athlete who refuses testing is treated.

Well first off we're talking GROSS revenue, which, after expenses such as taxes, boxer purses, promotional costs, production costs, lawyer costs, insurance costs, employee payroll costs, ect ect, we're looking at well under that 2 billion estimate left for other expenses.

Secondly, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than 20 mil to impliment random drug testing on 1000 boxers. You're talking the cost of the test, cost of analyzing the test, paying for scientists and other qualified personal to administer the tests, lab costs, material costs, ect ect. With random drug tests, you'd have to test a boxer at least 6 times a year for it to mean anything, so you're looking at 6000 tests per year. Keep in mind not every boxer lives in a major city like Las Vegas or New York, so you're also paying for travel expenses to fly these drug testers around the world to visit these boxers 6 times a year to administer these tests. We're talking about a hell of a lot of travel $$$. Obviously I don't have the numbers, but to me 20 million is a completely unrealistic number to tackle this kind of task.

So lets say after all the expenses, you have 300 million left. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I'll be generous and say that the drug testing you're talking about is going to swallow up at least half of that. So how do we get these guys to agree to give up that extra 50% of their profit margin? Essentially, you're asking them to give up that much money to ensure their fighters don't perform as well and have shorter careers/less fights.

And then you have the issue that the promoter is paying the drug testers directly, so it opens the doors for accusations of corruption and bribes, and the public doesn't fully trust the drug testing after all that. And then you have to also deal with the fact that these extensive drug tests can be cheated, so after all this messing around and spending, you still don't have a gaurentee of a clean sport. And then you have guys who just get a medical exemption to inject testosterone, so your expensive testing doesn't even apply to them.

It just seems unrealistic to me.

[Kirkland Laing]

The promotion last weekend grossed well over a hundred million dollars. The US boxing industry grosses billions of dollars a year, never mind the global take. Let's say that the US boxing industry only grosses two billion dollars a year and decides to fund testing for the top thousand boxers. Firstly, testing on that scale would probably significantly reduce the twenty million cost but let's stay at twenty. That's one percent of the gross, and in reality would be much less than one percent.

If a fighter refuses testing treat him the same way any other athlete who refuses testing is treated.

Well first off we're talking GROSS revenue, which, after expenses such as taxes, boxer purses, promotional costs, production costs, lawyer costs, insurance costs, employee payroll costs, ect ect, we're looking at well under that 2 billion estimate left for other expenses.

Secondly, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than 20 mil to impliment random drug testing on 1000 boxers. You're talking the cost of the test, cost of analyzing the test, paying for scientists and other qualified personal to administer the tests, lab costs, material costs, ect ect. With random drug tests, you'd have to test a boxer at least 6 times a year for it to mean anything, so you're looking at 6000 tests per year. Keep in mind not every boxer lives in a major city like Las Vegas or New York, so you're also paying for travel expenses to fly these drug testers around the world to visit these boxers 6 times a year to administer these tests. We're talking about a hell of a lot of travel $$$. Obviously I don't have the numbers, but to me 20 million is a completely unrealistic number to tackle this kind of task.

So lets say after all the expenses, you have 300 million left. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I'll be generous and say that the drug testing you're talking about is going to swallow up at least half of that. So how do we get these guys to agree to give up that extra 50% of their profit margin? Essentially, you're asking them to give up that much money to ensure their fighters don't perform as well and have shorter careers/less fights.

And then you have the issue that the promoter is paying the drug testers directly, so it opens the doors for accusations of corruption and bribes, and the public doesn't fully trust the drug testing after all that. And then you have to also deal with the fact that these extensive drug tests can be cheated, so after all this messing around and spending, you still don't have a gaurentee of a clean sport. And then you have guys who just get a medical exemption to inject testosterone, so your expensive testing doesn't even apply to them.

It just seems unrealistic to me.

I'm going off the figures that VADA came up with. I'm guessing they know what they're talking about. And if you were testing on that scale you could open your own lab, the larger scale testing you do the cheaper it would be. And you'd be testing the top thousand guys once a month which is a serious testing regime.

[TitoFan]

Geeez... enough with the money excuse already. There's plenty of money in boxing. Set aside an appropriate amount for testing. If not, then let's watch the sport continue to suffer from increased PED use until a high profile fighter gets killed or brain damaged. Then... the calls to ban boxing or clean it up will be ringing off the rafters and something will have to be done. Better now than to wait until that happens.

[IamInuit]

Geeez... enough with the money excuse already. There's plenty of money in boxing. Set aside an appropriate amount for testing. If not, then let's watch the sport continue to suffer from increased PED use until a high profile fighter gets killed or brain damaged. Then... the calls to ban boxing or clean it up will be ringing off the rafters and something will have to be done. Better now than to wait until that happens.

If the promoters and sanctioning bodies cannot come up with the coin after leeching fighters for billions of dollars over the years then provide a suitable pension/retirement plan based on shelf life.

[Beanflicker]

Geeez... enough with the money excuse already. There's plenty of money in boxing. Set aside an appropriate amount for testing. If not, then let's watch the sport continue to suffer from increased PED use until a high profile fighter gets killed or brain damaged. Then... the calls to ban boxing or clean it up will be ringing off the rafters and something will have to be done. Better now than to wait until that happens.

It's not an excuse, it's a serious question that needs a serious, logical answer. There's a lot of moving parts to this machine.

Saying "MAKE THE PROMOTERS PAY THEY'RE RICH WHO CARES" is not a logical plan. Yeah there's a lot of money in boxing, but who's pocket is it coming out of?

And the brain damage thing... fighters have been getting brain damaged and killed since boxing has been around! You don't need steroids to kill/brain damage a guy in the ring, that's been proven time and time again over the last 100 years. Again, that's something you can't quantify.

The theory has always been that punchers are born, not made. For instance, Stefan Bonner was juiced to the gills in his UFC fight against Anderson Silva, and at one point Anderson dropped his hands and let Stefan hit him with flush punches to the face with no effect. Steroids aren't turning Sven Ottke into Julian Jackson, that's just rediculous.

[TitoFan]

The promotion last weekend grossed well over a hundred million dollars. The US boxing industry grosses billions of dollars a year, never mind the global take. Let's say that the US boxing industry only grosses two billion dollars a year and decides to fund testing for the top thousand boxers. Firstly, testing on that scale would probably significantly reduce the twenty million cost but let's stay at twenty. That's one percent of the gross, and in reality would be much less than one percent.

If a fighter refuses testing treat him the same way any other athlete who refuses testing is treated.

Well first off we're talking GROSS revenue, which, after expenses such as taxes, boxer purses, promotional costs, production costs, lawyer costs, insurance costs, employee payroll costs, ect ect, we're looking at well under that 2 billion estimate left for other expenses.

Secondly, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than 20 mil to impliment random drug testing on 1000 boxers. You're talking the cost of the test, cost of analyzing the test, paying for scientists and other qualified personal to administer the tests, lab costs, material costs, ect ect. With random drug tests, you'd have to test a boxer at least 6 times a year for it to mean anything, so you're looking at 6000 tests per year. Keep in mind not every boxer lives in a major city like Las Vegas or New York, so you're also paying for travel expenses to fly these drug testers around the world to visit these boxers 6 times a year to administer these tests. We're talking about a hell of a lot of travel $$$. Obviously I don't have the numbers, but to me 20 million is a completely unrealistic number to tackle this kind of task.

So lets say after all the expenses, you have 300 million left. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I'll be generous and say that the drug testing you're talking about is going to swallow up at least half of that. So how do we get these guys to agree to give up that extra 50% of their profit margin? Essentially, you're asking them to give up that much money to ensure their fighters don't perform as well and have shorter careers/less fights.

And then you have the issue that the promoter is paying the drug testers directly, so it opens the doors for accusations of corruption and bribes, and the public doesn't fully trust the drug testing after all that. And then you have to also deal with the fact that these extensive drug tests can be cheated, so after all this messing around and spending, you still don't have a gaurentee of a clean sport. And then you have guys who just get a medical exemption to inject testosterone, so your expensive testing doesn't even apply to them.

It just seems unrealistic to me.

The USADA performed over 8200 doping tests in 2011 with expenses totaling $15.2 million. And this included everything from: testing services, results management, science and R&D, education and awareness, and general/ administrative costs. Six thousand tests can obviously be done for a lot less money. You get comprehensive testing performed on professional boxers for less than one percent of the gross revenue.

It's already being done.

In addition, team sport leagues such as the NFL and others have firmly implanted doping testing and have successfully managed issues such as testing costs. They've decided the risks are too high to do nothing and risk serious injury and loss of sport popularity.

[beenKOed]

The promotion last weekend grossed well over a hundred million dollars. The US boxing industry grosses billions of dollars a year, never mind the global take. Let's say that the US boxing industry only grosses two billion dollars a year and decides to fund testing for the top thousand boxers. Firstly, testing on that scale would probably significantly reduce the twenty million cost but let's stay at twenty. That's one percent of the gross, and in reality would be much less than one percent.

If a fighter refuses testing treat him the same way any other athlete who refuses testing is treated.

Well first off we're talking GROSS revenue, which, after expenses such as taxes, boxer purses, promotional costs, production costs, lawyer costs, insurance costs, employee payroll costs, ect ect, we're looking at well under that 2 billion estimate left for other expenses.

Secondly, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than 20 mil to impliment random drug testing on 1000 boxers. You're talking the cost of the test, cost of analyzing the test, paying for scientists and other qualified personal to administer the tests, lab costs, material costs, ect ect. With random drug tests, you'd have to test a boxer at least 6 times a year for it to mean anything, so you're looking at 6000 tests per year. Keep in mind not every boxer lives in a major city like Las Vegas or New York, so you're also paying for travel expenses to fly these drug testers around the world to visit these boxers 6 times a year to administer these tests. We're talking about a hell of a lot of travel $$$. Obviously I don't have the numbers, but to me 20 million is a completely unrealistic number to tackle this kind of task.

So lets say after all the expenses, you have 300 million left. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I'll be generous and say that the drug testing you're talking about is going to swallow up at least half of that. So how do we get these guys to agree to give up that extra 50% of their profit margin? Essentially, you're asking them to give up that much money to ensure their fighters don't perform as well and have shorter careers/less fights.

And then you have the issue that the promoter is paying the drug testers directly, so it opens the doors for accusations of corruption and bribes, and the public doesn't fully trust the drug testing after all that. And then you have to also deal with the fact that these extensive drug tests can be cheated, so after all this messing around and spending, you still don't have a gaurentee of a clean sport. And then you have guys who just get a medical exemption to inject testosterone, so your expensive testing doesn't even apply to them.

It just seems unrealistic to me.

The USADA performed over 8200 doping tests in 2011 with expenses totaling $15.2 million. And this included everything from: testing services, results management, science and R&D, education and awareness, and general/ administrative costs. Six thousand tests can obviously be done for a lot less money. You get comprehensive testing performed on professional boxers for less than one percent of the gross revenue.

It's already being done.

In addition, team sport leagues such as the NFL and others have firmly implanted doping testing and have successfully managed issues such as testing costs. They've decided the risks are too high to do nothing and risk serious injury and loss of sport popularity.

It can be done, boxing needs to choose a person or organization everyone can trust and do it.

[Julius Rain]

Can we just continue watching boxing and agree peds in boxing is a myth?

[TitoFan]

Let's start with the premise that most people believe PEDs in boxing are a serious problem.
Having established that it is a serious problem, the next step is to identify viable solutions.

Cost, when weighed against the potential health and life risks that PEDs represent in the ring, should not be an obstacle toward providing a solution. More than adequate explanations have been provided as to how the financials would easily be worked out.

What would be the next excuse to delay doing something?

[AdamGB]

Can we just continue watching boxing and agree peds in boxing is a myth?

Everything from baseball to cycling is rife with it, but you think it's anything but rife in an already corrupt sport were under performing means getting punched in the face 100s of times, concussed, brain damaged or killed?

[Julius Rain]

Can we just continue watching boxing and agree peds in boxing is a myth?

Everything from baseball to cycling is rife with it, but you think it's anything but rife in an already corrupt sport were under performing means getting punched in the face 100s of times, concussed, brain damaged or killed?

I understand your point but we can't keep going around accusing fighters every time they have a great performance or look different physically. I'm all for better state commission drug testing but until then I rather give fighrers the benefit of the doubt.

[IamInuit]

Can we just continue watching boxing and agree peds in boxing is a myth?

Everything from baseball to cycling is rife with it, but you think it's anything but rife in an already corrupt sport were under performing means getting punched in the face 100s of times, concussed, brain damaged or killed?

I understand your point but we can't keep going around accusing fighters every time they have a great performance or look different physically. I'm all for better state commission drug testing but until then I rather give fighrers the benefit of the doubt.

Yes that gets me a bit also. Manny had not even woke up yet and allegations started. Never mind the fact that Marquez only weighed 143 or 1 pound more the the last go, was heavy into weight training and landed a punch that would have ko'd half the planet.