If pac fought marquez after oscar...

[imp]

Hi guys,

Pac is a great fighter with a great personality and i wish him a speedy recovery.

I was just wondering whether the general feel of the pacmania that we all had would have still been this strong if pac would have fought marquez straight after oscar?...

If you look at clotty, hatton, cotto, margarito they are the complete opposite from a marquez type fighter which manny has always had problems with.

If manny fought marquez after oscar and the fight ended up like marquez 3 or 4, there definately would not be no mention from any fan, critic or hater that he is past his prime, leg cramps, no alex ariza, etc.

Like i said, we cannot ignore mannys achievements and his interest in politics and his age..this is affecting all fighters but im not talking about now im talking about then.

Was this great marketing from bob arum to avoid a marquez type of fighter for so long?

What are your thoughts on all of this?

[AdamGB]

Pac was great, but picking the right styles and catchweights made him even bigger than that.

[erics44]

I like pac, i think hes a good guy and a credit to the sport

all the abuse he has taken from the mayweather camp and then after the loss to bradley and then marquez there were no excuses, he is just happy to be in the position he is

I agree with adam to a certain degree tho

i honestly believe had pac fought margarito a couple of years earlier it would have been a different fight, same with hatton

i believe if the cotto and dlh fights hadnt have been at a catchweights they could well have turned out very different

i think he has had some benefits/advantages along the way that has made his rise seem much better than it was

[imp]

Yes thats true but i dont want it to turn into a discredit/compare fighters history thread.

Im interested in your views if he fought marquez earlier then it certainly would have changed everything.

[erics44]

Yes thats true but i dont want it to turn into a discredit/compare fighters history thread.

Im interested in your views if he fought marquez earlier then it certainly would have changed everything.

yeah i was being a cunt in my earlier post soz

didnt pac fight marquez at about that time?

i think pac was worthy of his two nil lead over marquez going into the last fight, i also think he would have won the last fight had it gone all the way

[erics44]

so to summarise i think barring a KO pac struggles with marquez but is slightly better over the distance and that would be the same at any point in their carears

what do you think?

[imp]

Yes thats true but i dont want it to turn into a discredit/compare fighters history thread.

Im interested in your views if he fought marquez earlier then it certainly would have changed everything.

yeah i was being a cunt in my earlier post soz

didnt pac fight marquez at about that time?

i think pac was worthy of his two nil lead over marquez going into the last fight, i also think he would have won the last fight had it gone all the way

You wasnt being a c&nt at all fella,

All the fights were close apart from the 4th one.

Its just a shame the 3rd marquez fight wasnt a bit earlier.

[imp]

so to summarise i think barring a KO pac struggles with marquez but is slightly better over the distance and that would be the same at any point in their carears

what do you think?

I agree with that.
Marquez needs the ko all the time to win.

[erics44]

so to summarise i think barring a KO pac struggles with marquez but is slightly better over the distance and that would be the same at any point in their carears

what do you think?

I agree with that.
Marquez needs the ko all the time to win.

do you agree with the controversy of the 3rd fight?

i didnt see it live and from reading the press and forums after the fight it seemed pac had been gifted

[imp]

so to summarise i think barring a KO pac struggles with marquez but is slightly better over the distance and that would be the same at any point in their carears

what do you think?

I agree with that.
Marquez needs the ko all the time to win.

do you agree with the controversy of the 3rd fight?

i didnt see it live and from reading the press and forums after the fight it seemed pac had been gifted

I think they gave it to pac due to the aggression. It could have went either way if im being honest.

Whenever these guys fight its always close.

When they fought for the 3rd time pacs camp were so cocky as they were used to the weight and everything and they fought it would be so easy.

I even remember alex ariza saying something like even "God cant help marquez."

[Beanflicker]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

[erics44]

so to summarise i think barring a KO pac struggles with marquez but is slightly better over the distance and that would be the same at any point in their carears

what do you think?

I agree with that.
Marquez needs the ko all the time to win.

do you agree with the controversy of the 3rd fight?

i didnt see it live and from reading the press and forums after the fight it seemed pac had been gifted

I think they gave it to pac due to the aggression. It could have went either way if im being honest.

Whenever these guys fight its always close.

When they fought for the 3rd time pacs camp were so cocky as they were used to the weight and everything and they fought it would be so easy.

I even remember alex ariza saying something like even "God cant help marquez."

i watched it a couple of days after and thought pac deserved it on agression

perhaps marquez won a couple of rounds more clearly but i think pac won the majority

pacs camp seemed very confident this time too, i think the emphasis on getting the KO from his camp lost pac the fight

[ElTerribleMorales]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

I've been one of the few who had said it all along, I would give him the credit he deserved but wouldn't gush over him like if he was some God, Pacquiao would nit pick his opponents and always seek some "advantage" rather taking on an opponent on even terms, he only decided to take on Marquez in the 3rd fight because Floyd had taken him apart but won by decision so he figured since JMM was older he could get the stoppage and was completely schooled in the process, had a bad showing against Bradley then decided to take on Marquez again but again he paid dearly for it

[IamInuit]

It's amazing what one bad loss can do to a career. Before Marquez 3, people were talking about Pac like he was the new and improved Henry Armstrong, and he was a top 5 guy of all time, ect.

Now he's a guy who was overrated and chose convenient catch weights to ambush his opponents (and I'm not even saying that's entirely untrue.)

I've been one of the few who had said it all along, I would give him the credit he deserved but wouldn't gush over him like if he was some God, Pacquiao would nit pick his opponents and always seek some "advantage" rather taking on an opponent on even terms, he only decided to take on Marquez in the 3rd fight because Floyd had taken him apart but won by decision so he figured since JMM was older he could get the stoppage and was completely schooled in the process, had a bad showing against Bradley then decided to take on Marquez again but again he paid dearly for it

Agreed. It was his fan boys that I had a problem with and not Manny. People saying he'd beat Robinson, Armstrong etc etc. It got to the point on a lot of forums when I thought people were actually devolving at least mentally. Arum had a slave contract and also knew full well that if Manny had issues with Marquez that Floyd would turn him into his personal rag doll. Like I said in that comparison thread, what he has done is really unprecedented but the way in which he went about it to me is tainted and I believe notations will be made in historical context and they should be. Starting with Oscar who had not made 147 in ten years, weighed 145 and then came to the fight only weighing 147. Making Cotto come down 2 pounds for his own title and then fighting the biggest welter in the division in Clottey w/o a catch. A great fighter no doubt but there are some critical skid marks imo. He's defaulted to the greatest Filipino boxer ever but I just don't agree. I still have him below Elorde and Villa.

[Beanflicker]

i watched it a couple of days after and thought pac deserved it on agression

I hate when guys get the nod for aggression. Boxing is supposed to be the sweet science, the art of hitting without being hit. Effective aggressiveness is one thing, but if a guy is throwing and missing a lot, I don't think you should win the fight on that.

Marquez outfoxed him, plain and simple.