French military targets Islamist rebels in Mali

[VictorCharlie]

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

You'd be wrong. The average French Soldier I worked with was dedicated and brave. Unfortunately their politicians and senior leaders neutered them with absurd rules of engagement which led to them getting trounced or just ignored every time they left their base.

[Andre]

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

You'd be wrong. The average French Soldier I worked with was dedicated and brave.

Unfortunately their politicians and senior leaders neutered them with absurd rules of engagement which led to them getting trounced or just ignored every time they left their base.

I imagine the first four words all go with the job description naturally.

The next sentence for the most part I imagine goes with the territory, in each countries services where ever they are and for each countries leaders who ever they are.

[VictorCharlie]

To a certain extent I agree Andre. I joined the military during a time of conflict with the full understanding that I would be going into harms way. Because of this I don't really feel I have the right to complain about it. Soldiers join for lots of reasons but they fight for each other. No one dodges bullets for the idea of patriotism or bringing freedom to some far off land. You do it b/c it is your sworn duty and to make sure that guy or gal to your left and right goes home. I expect my government to equip and train me to fight and then to let me execute my duties the best I can. For the most part this has been the case. While I haven't always agreed with the strategic or national goals of the conflicts I've take part in, I've always been given the resources I needed to accomplish my mission and bring my boys home. The French were sending their boys to Afghanistan then putting so many constraints on them they were not able to own their battlespace. They kept getting punched in the nose b/c they weren't allowed to do their job as it should be done.

[Kirkland Laing]

Spend some time with the French in Kapisa Province Kirk and you will understand what I'm talking about.

I imagine they were extremely pissed off to be there and were loath to put their lives at risk for no good reason.

You'd be wrong. The average French Soldier I worked with was dedicated and brave. Unfortunately their politicians and senior leaders neutered them with absurd rules of engagement which led to them getting trounced or just ignored every time they left their base.

I think the British were in the same boat. I think it's just the general staff trying to figure out how to do counterinsurgency best. I don't think it makes much difference if you decide to be as nice as possible or you just shoot fuck out of everything at every opportunity, counterinsurgency doesn't work.

[VictorCharlie]

COIN doesn't work long term w/o a good host nation partner but a combatant commander can definately make real short term progess against an insurgency with the right assets and leadership.

[TysonBomb]

I'm sure citizens of Mali would appreciate armed French invaders targeting "Islamist rebels" within their nations boundaries.

[Kirkland Laing]

COIN doesn't work long term w/o a good host nation partner but a combatant commander can definately make real short term progess against an insurgency with the right assets and leadership.

It doesn't really matter in the short term though. It's only worth doing if it works in the long term and I can't think of anywhere the west managed to do it effectively. I read something back during the Iraq situation that said the Brits had managed it in malaysia a hundred and odd years ago but that was only because they'd already been there over a century and had a lot of local knowledge/ties etc.

[VictorCharlie]

We keep picking shitty partners

[Andre]

We keep picking shitty partners

"Im your Huckleberry".

[Kirkland Laing]

So we're now being told that a bunch of beardy nutters with guns in North Africa is somehow an existential threat to Britain and will require a generational struggle to deal with. Or it could be that countries around Mali contain lots of oil, gas, uranium and other goodies vital for European/US economies and we've decided to send troops/special forces/drones in to keep an eye on them despite the fact that this will cause an increase in terrorist incidents. Then when the terrorist incidents happen we'll use them as an excuse to continue being there. Fantastic.

[Andre]

We keep picking shitty partners

"Im your Huckleberry".

(I was speaking on behalf of the Australian diggers here)

We are like The Doc Holiday version, backing up Wyatt, come what may.