Prime Mike Tyson in this era

[TitoFan]

I think a lot of you guys are really underestimating the Klitschkos. Yeah, Tyson was probably the greatest puncher in HW history (his combination of power + speed + punching variety is unmatched imo), but like any puncher, he needed to plant his feet.

Well..........

Not really. Remember Tyson's flying left hooks, where he practically lifted himself off the ground with the power they were thrown. Sure... he planted his feet. But the delivery of these shots was so-o-o quick, the opponent had little time to react with defense. Tyson's short arms and natural quickness gave him so much hand speed... and with power... that it basically neutralized a lot of bigger men's defenses.

But I think it's a mistake to lump in Vitali with Wladimir. Some say they would both lose to Tyson... some say both would beat Tyson. I'm with the group that says Tyson would annilihate Wlad, but would have a much harder time against Vitali. Tyson might still win... but it's by no means a foregone conclusion.

Vitali's chin was in fact a lot more resistant than Wlad's. That is an undisputable truth. Yeah he was slow and ponderous... but he's never been in trouble and much less knocked down or KO'ed.

[TysonBomb]

Notice that in those isolated gifs of Tillis doing reasonably well against Tyson (that you probably jacked from a user named "Tezel" of another boxing forum) that he was using UPPERCUTS

A punch that NEITHER Klit throws, especially Wlad.

Neither Klit would survive ... because nethier of them can fight inside ... Wladimir was KTFO by Sanders while attempting to clinch ... if he can't handle Sanders speed then what about Tyson who had speed that was off the charts ?Vitali and Wladimir are both bothered by speed ... as show in the Sanders fights.

Tyson was scoring KOs in the middle of someone trying to clinch him. Remember the second Bruno fight? Tyson KOed Bruno while he tried to clinch him.

Vitalis chin will only last for so long ... Tyson was KOing guys who had iron chins and had never been KOed before. Either that or his face would fall apart from the dynamite in Tyson's gloves. Tyson wouldn't allow him to control the distance and then Vitali would be an open target for Tyson to explode on.

Vitali could see Lewis's punches, which is why he could take them but he wouldn't see Tyson's, who would be throwing from every angle and in bunches with lightning hand speed.

[Beanflicker]

Neither Klit would survive ... because nethier of them can fight inside ... Wladimir was KTFO by Sanders while attempting to clinch ... if he can't handle Sanders speed then what about Tyson who had speed that was off the charts ?Vitali and Wladimir are both bothered by speed ... as show in the Sanders fights.

1. Who cares if they can't fight on the inside, I doubt either of them would attempt to fight on the inside against 5'10'', 70" reach Mike Tyson.

2. Bringing up the Sanders fight is rediculous because, as anyone can plainly see, that was 10 years ago and Wlad has improved 10-fold since then. You have to compare best at best. If you want to bring up their worst fights, why not look at how Tyson ate Buster Douglas' jab for the entire fight before getting sparked out.

3. Explain why you don't think Vitali or Wlad could survive Tyson when guys like Mitch Green, Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker were able to? We're those guys superior to the Klitschko's in ANY concievable way?

4. Bothered by speed... both guys have fought guys with quick hands to great success. Corrie managed to land a couple of good blows against Vitali, but ended up taking a monumental beating.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

A punch that NEITHER Klit throws, especially Wlad.

WK KO'd Peter in the rematch with the uppercut. He also utilised it in the Thompson fight.

Watch the Mercer fight. That shows his full arsenal too.

Steward changed his risk profile from high to low. In the process of doing so, he basically shut down a lot of the inside fighting. The end result is that Wlad keeps winning, but his fights are not as exciting as they used to be. In the case of VK check the Danny Williams fight. He threw a double uppercut then rightcross to finish it.

[Beanflicker]

I think some people should go back and check out some of the less memorable fights of Mike Tyson, and realize not everybody went down as hard and as quick as Michael Spinks.

Mike Jameson... 15-16 career record with only 4 KOs... so basically a big journeyman with no real punching power. Look at the trouble he gave Mike by smothering and holding when Mike came inside.



Tony Tucker... SOLID HW, I think this is one of Mike's most underrated wins because Tony could FIGHT. At times really effectively fought from range, landing flush jabs and straight rights and tying Mike up on the inside. Moved well and really limited Mike's offense.



Mitch Green... golden gloves winner but mediocre pro. Again we see Mike tied up on the inside by a taller fighter.




And so on and so forth... these are guys who are all shorter, weaker and far less skilled than the Klitshcko's. Wlad and Vitali have shown they can tie guys up on the inside, and what effect is that going to have on Mike with a 245-250lb giant leaning his weight on him in the inside?

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Ruddock took him to hell & back twice! None of these men are remotely comparable to K2. Most people on this forum seem to think both Klitschko's would lose to basically every solid Heavyweight of the past 80 or 90 years LOL. Truth is probably the opposite...

Let's quote a trainer who has eyewitnessed both Tyson and Wladimir Klitschko:

Question:
"You have worked with a lot of world class fighters. Is Tyson the hardest puncher you have ever seen or should I say felt?"

Freddie Roach (trainer of both Mike Tyson and Wladimir Klitschko)

"Punch for punch I think Klitschko probably hits a little bit harder but Mike’s much more explosive."

Larry Merchant about Tommy Brooks (trainer of both Mike Tyson and Wladimir Klitschko)

"Tommy Brooks... perhaps paid one of the highest compliments to Klitschko, when he said, his hands are faster than Tyson's were."

Emanuel Steward (HOF trainer):

"That's a tremendous compliment, especially when you consider the man is 6'6""

Yes mike had a good uppercut. But the hook speed and the uppercut get less and less relevant the more your opponents get out of reach. Thus such "surprise punches" come especially in close-range situations and therefore there is basically little chance to surprise the Klitschkos since they have perfected the skill of keeping opponents at bay.

[Fenster]

Green was never stopped in his entire career and Tucker suffered his first KO defeat 10 years after the Tyson fight. They both had rock solid chins, spoiled and were slaughtered on the cards.

Wlad could spoil, and get slaughtered on the cards, but I highly doubt his definte NOT rock solid chin would have got him the distance.

[THE PHILOSOPHER]

Green was never stopped in his entire career and Tucker suffered his first KO defeat 10 years after the Tyson fight. They both had rock solid chins, spoiled and were slaughtered on the cards.

Wlad could spoil, and get slaughtered on the cards, but I highly doubt his definte NOT rock solid chin would have got him the distance.

Tucker fought Tyson only 2 months after winning the title. Catastrophic shortage of time needed to prepare for Tyson that! Even then he had him reeling in the first! I don't think Wlad's chin is as bad as people make out either, it had more to do with conditioning and a leaky defense IMO. Haye and Wach landed flush.


"When Mike started fighting those big guys – and I always keep going back to the size factor. He still was a little guy. He could neutralize his size handicap with speed. His speed was so effective that the big guys were often clumsy uncoordinated who were bigger than him, until he fought those big guys who had skills and were not afraid of him.
But the big guys who were not super skillful, he would neutralize the size disadvantage with tremendous speed, footwork, head movement, and punching from short angles with all different types of punches...

To me Mike Tyson is one of the fighters I respect so much for what he did for being a small man, because he was still a small heavyweight. The biggest thing he had was his speed and intensity over a lot of big guys, when they were not prepared or well enough coordinated to deal with that.But the big guys who were not afraid of Mike and had any boxing skills, he had a problem with because Mike was a little guy…

Mike had problems with big guys! He was still a small guy that was really almost like a cruiserweight, and those big guys who were not afraid of him, all of them he struggled with… So it’s just the case where Mike was a phenomenal fighter, but with the big guys size still matters. You’re going to fight a guy (like Lennox Lewis) who’s 240-250, with skills, solid amateur background, went through 2 Olympics—no, I don’t think he could have done anything.

Evander Holyfield by the same token was just physically too small and Evander always had problems with jabs. I mean I trained him, and I had him sparring with guys who had good jabs, which is something he did have problems with."

Emanuel Steward, Hall of Fame Trainer

[Fenster]

Nice quote - Steward was talking about Lewis though not Wlad.

"I'm one of Mike Tyson's biggest fans, he's given me so many thrills, he is the most exciting heavyweight in the last 50 years" - Emanuel Steward, Hall of Fame Trainer, 2002

When Wach hit Wlad he almost did that thing he did against Peter - run around the ring looking for places to dive on the floor.

[TitoFan]

I don't think Wlad's chin is as bad as people make out either, it had more to do with conditioning and a leaky defense IMO. Haye and Wach landed flush.

Haye landed flush?? Haye was charitably credited for 36 power punches landed throughout the whole fight.... 3 per round!! I'm thinking some must've been counted twice. No way Haye connected that much. And "flush" is the operative word here. I suffered through watching the damn fight and didn't see a single flush shot on Wlad's chin. None.

Please refrain from using the Haye fight as a measure of Wlad's chin.

[Beanflicker]

Green was never stopped in his entire career and Tucker suffered his first KO defeat 10 years after the Tyson fight. They both had rock solid chins, spoiled and were slaughtered on the cards.

Well, I mean besides Tyson who did Green fight that you'd expect to stop him? He only ever really fought Tyson and Berbick.

And what about James Tillis? Stopped 11 times in his career (3 times before Tyson including a 1-round beating from Tim Witherspoon).

Bonecrusher was stopped 7 times, twice before the Tyson fight including one to Larry Holmes, who hardly fits the discription of a KO artist. Then starched by Ruddock 2 years later.

And of course we can mention Razor, gave Mike fits (the first fight was a terrible early stoppage) and shortly after their fights he was DESTROYED by Lewis and taken out by The Duke of all people.

[Fenster]

Green was never stopped in his entire career and Tucker suffered his first KO defeat 10 years after the Tyson fight. They both had rock solid chins, spoiled and were slaughtered on the cards.

Well, I mean besides Tyson who did Green fight that you'd expect to stop him? He only ever really fought Tyson and Berbick.

And what about James Tillis? Stopped 11 times in his career (3 times before Tyson including a 1-round beating from Tim Witherspoon).

Bonecrusher was stopped 7 times, twice before the Tyson fight including one to Larry Holmes, who hardly fits the discription of a KO artist. Then starched by Ruddock 2 years later.

And of course we can mention Razor, gave Mike fits (the first fight was a terrible early stoppage) and shortly after their fights he was DESTROYED by Lewis and taken out by The Duke of all people.

Just like you said -

2. Bringing up the Sanders fight is rediculous because, as anyone can plainly see, that was 10 years ago and Wlad has improved 10-fold since then. You have to compare best at best.

If you want to paint a picture of Tyson struggling with guys of a particular stature, you have to accept Wlad has stuggled when his head got cracked by fast handed punchers (well even slow handed plodders have knocked him down. Lets be honest). Best at best?