I miss Tyson

[Otley]

TBH I don't think there are too many heavyweights who could have beaten Tyson in his prime.....even the other GREATS would have found it tough.....Tyson had issues with taller fighters....fighters that could take the pressure and come back for more.....I think Tyson would always have trouble fighting a Buster Douglas type boxer....also a Holyfeld type fighter who would have soaked it up and fought back with intensity........food for thought!!!!


job Bicuit (I don't know)!!!


eh eh!!!

[TitoFan]

Like it or not Tyson was wiping out opponents who could just about win rounds against him and people were counting significant punches landing on Tyson. Holmes did not give Tyson any problems he was destroyed, this Holmes have Holyfield hell and beat the undefeated Mercer. The point I am making is that Tyson destroyed his opponents with ease and did not struggle with them as certain champions have been. These fighters were good fighters too. Tyson’s peak was way too short and only he is to blame for that.

Tyson didn't destroy Tillis, and he struggled with Tucker until Tucker broke his hand in the fourth. Pinklon Thomas had a lot of success with the jab and caused Mike problems.

Tyson destroyed mediocrity.


Holmes had been retired for two years, and should have had a tune up or three prior to facing Tyson.

Tyson did not struggle with Tucker, Tony landed one meaningful shot in the first 30 seconds the upper cut, then he took a beating. Thomas was battered in the first round and then the 6th when he was knocked out. Tyson was a head all the time.

I, along with Larry Merchant, had Thomas winning rounds 3, 4 and 5. I gave Tucker a few of the early rounds, and I would certainly not say he was having it easy. Had Tucker not broken his right hand it might have been interesting, as he caught Mike repeatedly with that uppercut.

Neither Thomas nor Tucker are rated highly though, which is the point. Mike was good, but found his level when he stepped up ie knocked out.

Tucker wasn't rated highly?

He was a ripped 6.5" unbeaten title holder.....

Who was outboxed by an out of shape Buster Douglas for nine rounds before he was able to turn it around in the tenth.

In what is otherwise a good, back-and-forth Tyson argument.... here is where it splats against the wall. An "out of shape Buster Douglas"?? The Tyson fight was probably the only time Buster Douglas ever got in as good a shape, mentally and physically. Did you by any chance happen to see the Douglas who fought Holyfield after having defeated Tyson? That..... was an out-of-shape Buster Douglas.

[Bobthepen]

Like it or not Tyson was wiping out opponents who could just about win rounds against him and people were counting significant punches landing on Tyson. Holmes did not give Tyson any problems he was destroyed, this Holmes have Holyfield hell and beat the undefeated Mercer. The point I am making is that Tyson destroyed his opponents with ease and did not struggle with them as certain champions have been. These fighters were good fighters too. Tyson’s peak was way too short and only he is to blame for that.

Tyson didn't destroy Tillis, and he struggled with Tucker until Tucker broke his hand in the fourth. Pinklon Thomas had a lot of success with the jab and caused Mike problems.

Tyson destroyed mediocrity.


Holmes had been retired for two years, and should have had a tune up or three prior to facing Tyson.

Tyson did not struggle with Tucker, Tony landed one meaningful shot in the first 30 seconds the upper cut, then he took a beating. Thomas was battered in the first round and then the 6th when he was knocked out. Tyson was a head all the time.

I, along with Larry Merchant, had Thomas winning rounds 3, 4 and 5. I gave Tucker a few of the early rounds, and I would certainly not say he was having it easy. Had Tucker not broken his right hand it might have been interesting, as he caught Mike repeatedly with that uppercut.

Neither Thomas nor Tucker are rated highly though, which is the point. Mike was good, but found his level when he stepped up ie knocked out.

Tucker wasn't rated highly?

He was a ripped 6.5" unbeaten title holder.....

Who was outboxed by an out of shape Buster Douglas for nine rounds before he was able to turn it around in the tenth.

In what is otherwise a good, back-and-forth Tyson argument.... here is where it splats against the wall. An "out of shape Buster Douglas"?? The Tyson fight was probably the only time Buster Douglas ever got in as good a shape, mentally and physically. Did you by any chance happen to see the Douglas who fought Holyfield after having defeated Tyson? That..... was an out-of-shape Buster Douglas.

If you re-read the post, I was referring to Douglas v Tucker, not the shape Douglas was in against Tyson.

[Otley]

Like it or not Tyson was wiping out opponents who could just about win rounds against him and people were counting significant punches landing on Tyson. Holmes did not give Tyson any problems he was destroyed, this Holmes have Holyfield hell and beat the undefeated Mercer. The point I am making is that Tyson destroyed his opponents with ease and did not struggle with them as certain champions have been. These fighters were good fighters too. Tyson’s peak was way too short and only he is to blame for that.

Tyson didn't destroy Tillis, and he struggled with Tucker until Tucker broke his hand in the fourth. Pinklon Thomas had a lot of success with the jab and caused Mike problems.

Tyson destroyed mediocrity.


Holmes had been retired for two years, and should have had a tune up or three prior to facing Tyson.

Tyson did not struggle with Tucker, Tony landed one meaningful shot in the first 30 seconds the upper cut, then he took a beating. Thomas was battered in the first round and then the 6th when he was knocked out. Tyson was a head all the time.

I, along with Larry Merchant, had Thomas winning rounds 3, 4 and 5. I gave Tucker a few of the early rounds, and I would certainly not say he was having it easy. Had Tucker not broken his right hand it might have been interesting, as he caught Mike repeatedly with that uppercut.

Neither Thomas nor Tucker are rated highly though, which is the point. Mike was good, but found his level when he stepped up ie knocked out.

Tucker wasn't rated highly?

He was a ripped 6.5" unbeaten title holder.....

Who was outboxed by an out of shape Buster Douglas for nine rounds before he was able to turn it around in the tenth.

In what is otherwise a good, back-and-forth Tyson argument.... here is where it splats against the wall. An "out of shape Buster Douglas"?? The Tyson fight was probably the only time Buster Douglas ever got in as good a shape, mentally and physically. Did you by any chance happen to see the Douglas who fought Holyfield after having defeated Tyson? That..... was an out-of-shape Buster Douglas.

Yes Douglas was a disgrace...he was unmotivated....due to knowing he was an overnight millionaire (around $25 million he was paid I think)......the dog had his day against Tyson and did very well thank you. Douglas laid down like a cheap Las Vegas tart and got paid



job biscuit (u get the message)!!!



eh eh!!!

[TitoFan]

Like it or not Tyson was wiping out opponents who could just about win rounds against him and people were counting significant punches landing on Tyson. Holmes did not give Tyson any problems he was destroyed, this Holmes have Holyfield hell and beat the undefeated Mercer. The point I am making is that Tyson destroyed his opponents with ease and did not struggle with them as certain champions have been. These fighters were good fighters too. Tyson’s peak was way too short and only he is to blame for that.

Tyson didn't destroy Tillis, and he struggled with Tucker until Tucker broke his hand in the fourth. Pinklon Thomas had a lot of success with the jab and caused Mike problems.

Tyson destroyed mediocrity.


Holmes had been retired for two years, and should have had a tune up or three prior to facing Tyson.

Tyson did not struggle with Tucker, Tony landed one meaningful shot in the first 30 seconds the upper cut, then he took a beating. Thomas was battered in the first round and then the 6th when he was knocked out. Tyson was a head all the time.

I, along with Larry Merchant, had Thomas winning rounds 3, 4 and 5. I gave Tucker a few of the early rounds, and I would certainly not say he was having it easy. Had Tucker not broken his right hand it might have been interesting, as he caught Mike repeatedly with that uppercut.

Neither Thomas nor Tucker are rated highly though, which is the point. Mike was good, but found his level when he stepped up ie knocked out.

Tucker wasn't rated highly?

He was a ripped 6.5" unbeaten title holder.....

Who was outboxed by an out of shape Buster Douglas for nine rounds before he was able to turn it around in the tenth.

In what is otherwise a good, back-and-forth Tyson argument.... here is where it splats against the wall. An "out of shape Buster Douglas"?? The Tyson fight was probably the only time Buster Douglas ever got in as good a shape, mentally and physically. Did you by any chance happen to see the Douglas who fought Holyfield after having defeated Tyson? That..... was an out-of-shape Buster Douglas.

If you re-read the post, I was referring to Douglas v Tucker, not the shape Douglas was in against Tyson.

You're right..... my bad.




Apparently the "Tyson" Douglas was pretty much the exception and not the rule.
He could've had a much better career than he had, if his laziness hadn't gotten in the way.

[floydbingo]

Undefeated Tucker and Biggs over 6ft 5 +, Bruno, Williams, Bonecrusher Smith, Thomas whilst not great would have beaten today’s contenders with ease. Tyson and Jones destroyed with what was put in front of them, they did not struggle or lose rounds at their best.

Yeah, Williams was a monster during the five minutes he lasted against Weaver before he was stopped.

Tyson didn't lose rounds against tomato cans, because they rarely lasted one. There's a reason why his team kept him away from Holyfield.

Williams may have been stopped by Weaver but Williams gave Holmes a lot of trouble.

Tyson would have destroyed Holyfield had they fought when Tyson beat Williams, he was on a different level to most fighters in history.

He gave a faded, 36 year old Holmes problems.

Tyson was on a different level? As demonstrated by what? Knocking out faded greats and tomato cans? Didn't Douglas show the world he was overrated?

Holyfield fought at 212lbs in 1989, 3lbs lighter than when he knocked out Mike in 1996.

I'll save you the troble of posting the stock response:-

1. If Cus hadn't died
2. Tyson didn't train for Douglas
3. If Rooney was still training him.
4. Douglas had a long count

Pick one, or come up with a totally new theory on why Tyson was the greatest in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Mike Tyson - drugged into mediocrity
Mike Tyson was one of the most exciting heavyweight boxers of all time. He had ripped apart the best that boxing had to offer.

Then in 1990 he fought an unimpressive contender called Buster Douglas.

When he stepped into the ring against Douglas it was as an unbeaten and unbeatable champion. About seven (from memory) rounds into the fight he was laid flat on his back for the count. I watched the fight in astonishment. It was plain to see that Tyson was lethargic. I thought at the time that he was just badly out of condition.

From that moment on Tyson was a tortured soul. He was in and out of court and jail on a regular basis, and lost fights to people whom he would have wiped the floor with just a few years earlier.

I read today that when he stepped into the ring in 1990 Tyson was on a chemical cocktail of Lithium, Zoloft, Seroquel, Lamitcal and other psychotropic drugs. On that night Tyson was too zonked out to stand, let alone think or fight clearly

I had often wondered what happened to turn Mike Tyson from an unbeatable champion to an easy-beat, has-been overnight. I should have realised that it was the psychs.
Philip Barton

[TitoFan]

It's always amazing to me how quick people are to dismiss Buster Douglas' superhuman effort on the night the stars aligned just right and he beat Mike Tyson. "Tyson was shot", "Tyson was under-trained", "Tyson was over-confident (true)", "Tyson was on drugs", etc, etc, etc, etc.

I've watched the fight countless times. How about giving Buster Douglas some credit, if only for that one fateful night (for Tyson). Douglas hadn't done anything like that before Tyson.... and he never did anything like that after Tyson. But on that night? Douglas fought a perfect fight.

People forget... Douglas had the size and reach. All he needed was the skill, the conditioning, and the balls. That night he had all three. People talk as if Tyson was sleepwalking through the fight. He wasn't. True.... he was grossly over-confident, an understandable consequence of being undefeated and viewed as totally indestructible. Who the f___ was Buster Douglas but some other bum on Tyson's road to boxing royalty?

Douglas had the perfect mindset and "cojones" for Tyson that night. He refused to be bullied. Instead, he pushed Mike around, with his bigger body. He boxed... he danced... he tied Tyson up when he had to. He traded with Mike when he had to.

The Douglas of that night would've destroyed Wladimir Klitschko on any given night.

Eventually, you play with fire long enough... you get burned. Tyson finally caught him with an uppercut from hell. Aided by a generous count and the end of the round, Douglas survived. It wasn't meant to be Tyson's night.

So to each his own. Destroyed Tyson fans will continue to believe it was voodoo. In some dark corner some hater was sticking pins into a Tyson doll, weakening him for the kill by the bum Douglas. I prefer to give Douglas all the credit in the world for scoring what must still be the most humoungous upset in the history of all of sport. Unfortunately, this all went to Douglas' head and he went back to his lazy, overeating ways. He got dispatched easily by Holyfield, and that was that. More fuel for the destroyed Tyson fans to cling to the voodoo theory.

Let's call things for what they are. Douglas had one career day... and then called it a career. It was a fierce, competitive, action-packed, fingernail-biting fight. And the better man that night won.

[TysonBomb]

Undefeated Tucker and Biggs over 6ft 5 +, Bruno, Williams, Bonecrusher Smith, Thomas whilst not great would have beaten today’s contenders with ease. Tyson and Jones destroyed with what was put in front of them, they did not struggle or lose rounds at their best.

Yeah, Williams was a monster during the five minutes he lasted against Weaver before he was stopped.

Tyson didn't lose rounds against tomato cans, because they rarely lasted one. There's a reason why his team kept him away from Holyfield.

Williams may have been stopped by Weaver but Williams gave Holmes a lot of trouble.

Tyson would have destroyed Holyfield had they fought when Tyson beat Williams, he was on a different level to most fighters in history.

He gave a faded, 36 year old Holmes problems.

Tyson was on a different level? As demonstrated by what? Knocking out faded greats and tomato cans? Didn't Douglas show the world he was overrated?

Holyfield fought at 212lbs in 1989, 3lbs lighter than when he knocked out Mike in 1996.

I'll save you the troble of posting the stock response:-

1. If Cus hadn't died
2. Tyson didn't train for Douglas
3. If Rooney was still training him.
4. Douglas had a long count

Pick one, or come up with a totally new theory on why Tyson was the greatest in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Mike Tyson - drugged into mediocrity
Mike Tyson was one of the most exciting heavyweight boxers of all time. He had ripped apart the best that boxing had to offer.

Then in 1990 he fought an unimpressive contender called Buster Douglas.

When he stepped into the ring against Douglas it was as an unbeaten and unbeatable champion. About seven (from memory) rounds into the fight he was laid flat on his back for the count. I watched the fight in astonishment. It was plain to see that Tyson was lethargic. I thought at the time that he was just badly out of condition.

From that moment on Tyson was a tortured soul. He was in and out of court and jail on a regular basis, and lost fights to people whom he would have wiped the floor with just a few years earlier.

I read today that when he stepped into the ring in 1990 Tyson was on a chemical cocktail of Lithium, Zoloft, Seroquel, Lamitcal and other psychotropic drugs. On that night Tyson was too zonked out to stand, let alone think or fight clearly

I had often wondered what happened to turn Mike Tyson from an unbeatable champion to an easy-beat, has-been overnight. I should have realised that it was the psychs.
Philip Barton

That is some regimen, if its true.

Two SSRIs (duplicate therapy), an anti epileptic/mood stabilizer, and a potent bipolar agent

I know he was on Zoloft for depression later on in his career but I doubt he was taking all of those drugs concurrently .... dangerous combination especially when you have two SSRI's (Seroquel and Zoloft) being used together ... Its probably a possibility that he's been treated with these agents at least one point in his career ... Givens pretty much said he was bipolar so I'm guessing he was being treated as early as then ...

It's always amazing to me how quick people are to dismiss Buster Douglas' superhuman effort on the night the stars aligned just right and he beat Mike Tyson. "Tyson was shot", "Tyson was under-trained", "Tyson was over-confident (true)", "Tyson was on drugs", etc, etc, etc, etc.

I've watched the fight countless times. How about giving Buster Douglas some credit, if only for that one fateful night (for Tyson). Douglas hadn't done anything like that before Tyson.... and he never did anything like that after Tyson. But on that night? Douglas fought a perfect fight.

People forget... Douglas had the size and reach. All he needed was the skill, the conditioning, and the balls. That night he had all three. People talk as if Tyson was sleepwalking through the fight. He wasn't. True.... he was grossly over-confident, an understandable consequence of being undefeated and viewed as totally indestructible. Who the f___ was Buster Douglas but some other bum on Tyson's road to boxing royalty?

Douglas had the perfect mindset and "cojones" for Tyson that night. He refused to be bullied. Instead, he pushed Mike around, with his bigger body. He boxed... he danced... he tied Tyson up when he had to. He traded with Mike when he had to.

The Douglas of that night would've destroyed Wladimir Klitschko on any given night.

Eventually, you play with fire long enough... you get burned. Tyson finally caught him with an uppercut from hell. Aided by a generous count and the end of the round, Douglas survived. It wasn't meant to be Tyson's night.

So to each his own. Destroyed Tyson fans will continue to believe it was voodoo. In some dark corner some hater was sticking pins into a Tyson doll, weakening him for the kill by the bum Douglas. I prefer to give Douglas all the credit in the world for scoring what must still be the most humoungous upset in the history of all of sport. Unfortunately, this all went to Douglas' head and he went back to his lazy, overeating ways. He got dispatched easily by Holyfield, and that was that. More fuel for the destroyed Tyson fans to cling to the voodoo theory.

Let's call things for what they are. Douglas had one career day... and then called it a career. It was a fierce, competitive, action-packed, fingernail-biting fight. And the better man that night won.

All of the credit in the world for Douglas for beating that version of Tyson

But Mike at his best would stomp that Douglas ... besides the crash soup diet, the lack of training, the partying, lack of mental preparation and focus, he was even being knocked down by freaking Greg Page in sparring



Trevor Berbick even gave him trouble in sparring in preparation for Douglas. Trevor Berbick who was knocked out thrice by Tyson with one punch.

[Master]

The fighter that knocked down Tyson was Greg Page from memory. It was from a quick right hand over Tyson’s jab. Berbick who was quite mad and ended up being killed in Jamaica.

[TysonBomb]

The fighter that knocked down Tyson was Greg Page from memory. It was from a quick right hand over Tyson’s jab. Berbick who was quite mad and ended up being killed in Jamaica.

Yeah, it was Page.

And Tyson took sparring very seriously under Rooney and Cus ... and I'm sure he was embarrassed and pissed after being knocked down by the likes of Greg Page, even if they weren't the ones training him.

Tyson still didn't get his act together and ended up losing to Douglas ... he probably didn't have enough time by then anyway.

[Master]

The fighter that knocked down Tyson was Greg Page from memory. It was from a quick right hand over Tyson’s jab. Berbick who was quite mad and ended up being killed in Jamaica.

Yeah, it was Page.

And Tyson took sparring very seriously under Rooney and Cus ... and I'm sure he was embarrassed and pissed after being knocked down by the likes of Greg Page, even if they weren't the ones training him.

Tyson still didn't get his act together and ended up losing to Douglas ... he probably didn't have enough time by then anyway.

No time at all, he was in poor condition against Bruno but pulled that one out too. His life was very chaotic.