From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?

[Gandalf]

Opinion and argument frequently differ, oftentimes they are easily exchanged. You know that you are wrong.

Go to war strong Dark Al. We laugh at you from afar, but go to war and die for your pathetic cause you masculine non-black form you, pathetic bastard.

Just me being nice. He seems like Lyle. Too bloated with a big head and a racist heart.

[Dark Lord Al]

Opinion and argument frequently differ, oftentimes they are easily exchanged. You know that you are wrong.

Go to war strong Dark Al. We laugh at you from afar, but go to war and die for your pathetic cause you masculine non-black form you, pathetic bastard.

Just me being nice. He seems like Lyle. Too bloated with a big head and a racist heart.

A very interesting view you have of me , and i will leave it at that.

To answer the origional question in the thread.

Id say quite a few.

[GOAT]

At least as many as Quitaly Clinchko.

[El Kabong]

So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.

Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.

Save me the whining, Joe Louis gave up years of his prime to be in the service. Joe could have had 30 or more title defenses had it not been for World War II!

"He was proved right"....by who? Vietnam was there to be won were it not for the "intellectuals" & flower children....bunch of Trotsky, Che Guavera loving bastards. Look what those "make love not war" bullshitters have wrought on society!

[chinchekked]

The problem with this argument is with the Nation of Islam. They were corrupt and devious in their ways and they had influences over Ali in ways we will probably never know. If it was simply that Ali refused to fight for a country that didn't treat him fairly then fair play to him. He doesn't lose pts just because Louis didn't refuse because while they both lost years of their careers for different reasons but they both made choices. The thing is that Ali said no to being pimped out to a war and he suffered the consequences for that decision. This is what added to Ali's popularity, he was defiant in the face of bullcrap and whether right or wrong that won him supporters from all walks of life. Ali didn't fall in line with what he was being told and that stance gave people who were discriminated against a sense of dignity an defiance that can't be articulated. I remember on the Ali vs Holmes documentary there was a story where one guy asked an older black gentleman why he picked Ali to beat Holmes and the guy answered along the lines of "because Ali gave me my dignity". Whether you agree or not is your choice, or even if you don't understand it that is why people have that larger than life view of Ali. That's why he transcended boxing and despite LEGITIMATE arguments that he is not the best, some people aren't trying to hear it no matter what. I'm not saying its right but I have no problem understanding it at all. For all of his bullshit, Ali gave people hope because he was a public black figure who told the govt no when that just didn't happen often.