28 years ago today...

[bradlee180]

Forgive me, I neglected to write youngest man to win a version of the Heavyweight Title. EVERYBODY knows Wilfred Benitez is the youngest man inclusive of all weight classes.
WBO was garbage at the time, nobody gave that Title any respect. It was WBA, WBC, and IBF.

Lineage was broken because lineal Champ Michael Spinks retired as Champ. He unretired and Tyson destroyed him making Tyson The-Man-Who-Beat-The-Man.
Ali had beat Leon Spinks, so Ali was The Man.
Ali retired as Champ, but came back when Holmes was Champ.
Holmes whupped Ali making Holmes The Man.
Michael Spinks got the decisions against Holmes making Michael Spinks The Man.
Michael Spinks retires as Champ, but came back for the huge payday when Tyson was now Champ.
Mike Tyson destroys Michael Spinks making Mike Tyson The-Man-Who-Beat-The-Man.
"To be The Man, WOOOOOO, you've gotta beat The Man!"

In 1989, prior to the 1990 Douglas fight, I distinctly remember Ring Magazine had Mike Tyson at pound-for-pound #1. And I agreed with it that Julio Cesar Chavez was #2. Ultimately Chavez had a better, more consistent career, but for those few years, Tyson had it all.

And migwetch, that is Jose Ribalta.

[Britkid]

Forgive me, I neglected to write youngest man to win a version of the Heavyweight Title. EVERYBODY knows Wilfred Benitez is the youngest man inclusive of all weight classes.

My Mum does not...

WBO was garbage at the time, nobody gave that Title any respect. It was WBA, WBC, and IBF.

The WBO was an off shoot of the WBA, so why were they garbage and the WBA were not? Also as we found out another off shoot of the WBA, the IBF, had a President taking bribes at the time, yet they get respect? And do not get me started on Suliman and his cronies...

Lineage was broken because lineal Champ Michael Spinks retired as Champ.

Spinks did not retire pre Tyson, with the exception of a short period in the late 1970's. I think you are getting confused when the Jinx gave up the IBF crown to fight Cooney. Then Spinks was debating whether to have the knee surgery he required, as the Tyson fight did not look like happening, on his and Lewis' terms.

In 1989, prior to the 1990 Douglas fight, I distinctly remember Ring Magazine had Mike Tyson at pound-for-pound #1.

Alas, not so:



Sorry about that, it is an old scan, and I do not have the original magazine now.

But here is The Ring's first offical pound for pound rankings:



Now, although there is no date, Carbajal was 32-2, which meant the rankings began around early 1995...

[ross]

Forgive me, I neglected to write youngest man to win a version of the Heavyweight Title. EVERYBODY knows Wilfred Benitez is the youngest man inclusive of all weight classes.

My Mum does not...

WBO was garbage at the time, nobody gave that Title any respect. It was WBA, WBC, and IBF.

The WBO was an off shoot of the WBA, so why were they garbage and the WBA were not? Also as we found out another off shoot of the WBA, the IBF, had a President taking bribes at the time, yet they get respect? And do not get me started on Suliman and his cronies...

Lineage was broken because lineal Champ Michael Spinks retired as Champ.

Spinks did not retire pre Tyson, with the exception of a short period in the late 1970's. I think you are getting confused when the Jinx gave up the IBF crown to fight Cooney. Then Spinks was debating whether to have the knee surgery he required, as the Tyson fight did not look like happening, on his and Lewis' terms.

In 1989, prior to the 1990 Douglas fight, I distinctly remember Ring Magazine had Mike Tyson at pound-for-pound #1.

Alas, not so:



Sorry about that, it is an old scan, and I do not have the original magazine now.

But here is The Ring's first offical pound for pound rankings:



Now, although there is no date, Carbajal was 32-2, which meant the rankings began around early 1995...

Well Steve Farhhod the old editor of the ring says
“I voted for Tyson, and he's a definite first-ballot Hall of Famer,” Showtime boxing analyst Steve Farhood told me. As editor of KO Magazine and also former editor of The RING, Farhood covered Tyson’s pro career from the earliest stages.

“Those who don't think so are practicing revisionist history,” Farhood said. “I laugh when I read how Tyson was an underachiever and should have been dominant for much longer. First of all, he was not only the top heavyweight in the world, and the first undisputed champion in years, but he was the No. 1-ranked fighter in the game, pound for pound. And to secure that position, he beat the No. 2, Michael Spinks.”

Tyson worthy of his hall of fame induction | RingTV

[Beanflicker]

I wasn't around back then so wouldn't know, but it definitely is possible that he was ranked #1 over Sweet Pea because when he KTFO Spinks, Pernell was coming off a loss JLR a few short months before. It was a bullshit decision, but still technically a "loss", so Sweet Pea couldn't have been #1 at the time Tyson beat Spinks.

[Beanflicker]

What about Ray Leonard though? He was coming off his big upset over Hagler and a whipping of Danny Lalonde.

[greynotsoold]

The thing about Tyson, he fought like a small fighter. He certainly had flaws, like being much too willing to fall into clinches and let a bigger man lay on him. But, by and large, he fought fast. he started outside, closed quickly and did lots of damage on the way in. His hands were as fast as anybody that has ever been a HW; his feet were real fast as well.
When you consider him against the all-time heavyweights...I don't think he would beat Joe louis because Louis threw such concise powerful punches. He was very fast with his hands as well, and shorter; he'd catch Tyson coming in. Of course, the speed and power of Tyson could make all that irrelevant, but I think louis would beat him.
I think Tyson would beat Ali, and have the easiest time against the 'prime' Ali. Because the way Ali would fight, with movement and jabs, was all all all wrong against Tyson. First, you ain't gonna beat Tyson, at his best, with a jab. His whole freaking game was getting around a jab. They knew he was a short HW and programmed him accordingly. Now, if you jab, or feint the jab, and counter off his reaction, you can get some action.
But to jab and move? Foolish. That would let him get up steam, start taking those crossover steps (watch tape and see how often he would step over, to his right, end up in a southpaw stance and punch effectively from there)and landing punches from odd angles. he'd beat Ali easy. He'd have more trouble with the older, slower, clutch and grab Ali.

[El Kabong]

The thing about Tyson, he fought like a small fighter. He certainly had flaws, like being much too willing to fall into clinches and let a bigger man lay on him. But, by and large, he fought fast. he started outside, closed quickly and did lots of damage on the way in. His hands were as fast as anybody that has ever been a HW; his feet were real fast as well.
When you consider him against the all-time heavyweights...I don't think he would beat Joe louis because Louis threw such concise powerful punches. He was very fast with his hands as well, and shorter; he'd catch Tyson coming in. Of course, the speed and power of Tyson could make all that irrelevant, but I think louis would beat him.
I think Tyson would beat Ali, and have the easiest time against the 'prime' Ali. Because the way Ali would fight, with movement and jabs, was all all all wrong against Tyson. First, you ain't gonna beat Tyson, at his best, with a jab. His whole freaking game was getting around a jab. They knew he was a short HW and programmed him accordingly. Now, if you jab, or feint the jab, and counter off his reaction, you can get some action.
But to jab and move? Foolish. That would let him get up steam, start taking those crossover steps (watch tape and see how often he would step over, to his right, end up in a southpaw stance and punch effectively from there)and landing punches from odd angles. he'd beat Ali easy. He'd have more trouble with the older, slower, clutch and grab Ali.

Want to see Ali vs Tyson? Look no further than how Patterson & Liston did vs Ali.

[Britkid]

I wasn't around back then so wouldn't know, but it definitely is possible that he was ranked #1 over Sweet Pea because when he KTFO Spinks, Pernell was coming off a loss JLR a few short months before. It was a bullshit decision, but still technically a "loss", so Sweet Pea couldn't have been #1 at the time Tyson beat Spinks.

My point was 'The Ring' did not rank fighters pound for pound before 1995...

In 1989, yeah Whitaker despite the Ramirez fix... I mean robbery (so sue me Senor Suleiman), was not pound for pound a contender for the #1 spot, but Chavez was. And some had the Kid from Culiacan ahead of Tyson, pound for pound.

[Fenster]

I wasn't around back then so wouldn't know, but it definitely is possible that he was ranked #1 over Sweet Pea because when he KTFO Spinks, Pernell was coming off a loss JLR a few short months before. It was a bullshit decision, but still technically a "loss", so Sweet Pea couldn't have been #1 at the time Tyson beat Spinks.

My point was 'The Ring' did not rank fighters pound for pound before 1995...

In 1989, yeah Whitaker despite the Ramirez fix... I mean robbery (so sue me Senor Suleiman), was not pound for pound a contender for the #1 spot, but Chavez was. And some had the Kid from Culiacan ahead of Tyson, pound for pound.

This says Tyson was Ring ranked P4P no.1

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1989 - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Is it a mistake?

[Beanflicker]

My point was 'The Ring' did not rank fighters pound for pound before 1995...

In 1989, yeah Whitaker despite the Ramirez fix... I mean robbery (so sue me Senor Suleiman), was not pound for pound a contender for the #1 spot, but Chavez was. And some had the Kid from Culiacan ahead of Tyson, pound for pound.

This says Tyson was Ring ranked P4P no.1

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1989 - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Is it a mistake?[/QUOTE]

I think it's legit, I have a bunch of Ring magazines from pre-1995 (I'm at work right now so can't double check) that I'm 99.9% certain had p4p ratings.

[Britkid]

I wasn't around back then so wouldn't know, but it definitely is possible that he was ranked #1 over Sweet Pea because when he KTFO Spinks, Pernell was coming off a loss JLR a few short months before. It was a bullshit decision, but still technically a "loss", so Sweet Pea couldn't have been #1 at the time Tyson beat Spinks.

My point was 'The Ring' did not rank fighters pound for pound before 1995...

In 1989, yeah Whitaker despite the Ramirez fix... I mean robbery (so sue me Senor Suleiman), was not pound for pound a contender for the #1 spot, but Chavez was. And some had the Kid from Culiacan ahead of Tyson, pound for pound.

This says Tyson was Ring ranked P4P no.1

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1989 - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Is it a mistake?

No. that is right, it was the first ratings after their comeback. The KO magazine did an annual poll to decide the best pound for pound fighters, but when The Ring became part of the KO/World Boxing/Boxing 87 et al group, they eventually took over the poll, with a record of the previous polls, that date back to 1980.

KO (April 1995)



The Ring (April 2007)

[Britkid]

Forgive me, I neglected to write youngest man to win a version of the Heavyweight Title. EVERYBODY knows Wilfred Benitez is the youngest man inclusive of all weight classes.

My Mum does not...

WBO was garbage at the time, nobody gave that Title any respect. It was WBA, WBC, and IBF.

The WBO was an off shoot of the WBA, so why were they garbage and the WBA were not? Also as we found out another off shoot of the WBA, the IBF, had a President taking bribes at the time, yet they get respect? And do not get me started on Suliman and his cronies...

Lineage was broken because lineal Champ Michael Spinks retired as Champ.

Spinks did not retire pre Tyson, with the exception of a short period in the late 1970's. I think you are getting confused when the Jinx gave up the IBF crown to fight Cooney. Then Spinks was debating whether to have the knee surgery he required, as the Tyson fight did not look like happening, on his and Lewis' terms.

In 1989, prior to the 1990 Douglas fight, I distinctly remember Ring Magazine had Mike Tyson at pound-for-pound #1.

Alas, not so:



Sorry about that, it is an old scan, and I do not have the original magazine now.

But here is The Ring's first offical pound for pound rankings:



Now, although there is no date, Carbajal was 32-2, which meant the rankings began around early 1995...

Well Steve Farhhod the old editor of the ring says
“I voted for Tyson, and he's a definite first-ballot Hall of Famer,” Showtime boxing analyst Steve Farhood told me. As editor of KO Magazine and also former editor of The RING, Farhood covered Tyson’s pro career from the earliest stages.

“Those who don't think so are practicing revisionist history,” Farhood said. “I laugh when I read how Tyson was an underachiever and should have been dominant for much longer. First of all, he was not only the top heavyweight in the world, and the first undisputed champion in years, but he was the No. 1-ranked fighter in the game, pound for pound. And to secure that position, he beat the No. 2, Michael Spinks.”

Tyson worthy of his hall of fame induction | RingTV

I have a lot of time for Farhood, he was a brilliant editor of 'The Ring', and badly treated by them. But he made his name selling 'The Ring' as not Farhood's magazine, but a genuinely independent free spirit in boxing. Trying to repair the damage of the US Boxing Championship.

Believe it or not, I too like Farhood ranked Tyson #1 pound for pound post Hagler, until the Douglas defeat. My point was many had Chavez in that spot, and with hindsight, they were probably right.

[ross]

Forgive me, I neglected to write youngest man to win a version of the Heavyweight Title. EVERYBODY knows Wilfred Benitez is the youngest man inclusive of all weight classes.

My Mum does not...

WBO was garbage at the time, nobody gave that Title any respect. It was WBA, WBC, and IBF.

The WBO was an off shoot of the WBA, so why were they garbage and the WBA were not? Also as we found out another off shoot of the WBA, the IBF, had a President taking bribes at the time, yet they get respect? And do not get me started on Suliman and his cronies...

Lineage was broken because lineal Champ Michael Spinks retired as Champ.

Spinks did not retire pre Tyson, with the exception of a short period in the late 1970's. I think you are getting confused when the Jinx gave up the IBF crown to fight Cooney. Then Spinks was debating whether to have the knee surgery he required, as the Tyson fight did not look like happening, on his and Lewis' terms.

In 1989, prior to the 1990 Douglas fight, I distinctly remember Ring Magazine had Mike Tyson at pound-for-pound #1.

Alas, not so:



Sorry about that, it is an old scan, and I do not have the original magazine now.

But here is The Ring's first offical pound for pound rankings:



Now, although there is no date, Carbajal was 32-2, which meant the rankings began around early 1995...

Well Steve Farhhod the old editor of the ring says
“I voted for Tyson, and he's a definite first-ballot Hall of Famer,” Showtime boxing analyst Steve Farhood told me. As editor of KO Magazine and also former editor of The RING, Farhood covered Tyson’s pro career from the earliest stages.

“Those who don't think so are practicing revisionist history,” Farhood said. “I laugh when I read how Tyson was an underachiever and should have been dominant for much longer. First of all, he was not only the top heavyweight in the world, and the first undisputed champion in years, but he was the No. 1-ranked fighter in the game, pound for pound. And to secure that position, he beat the No. 2, Michael Spinks.”

Tyson worthy of his hall of fame induction | RingTV

I have a lot of time for Farhood, he was a brilliant editor of 'The Ring', and badly treated by them. But he made his name selling 'The Ring' as not Farhood's magazine, but a genuinely independent free spirit in boxing. Trying to repair the damage of the US Boxing Championship.

Believe it or not, I too like Farhood ranked Tyson #1 pound for pound post Hagler, until the Douglas defeat. My point was many had Chavez in that spot, and with hindsight, they were probably right.

I dont know much about Chavez career but did he ever have a period where unquestionably he was the very best in his weight with no challengers? Did he unify? Was he undisputed?

[Spicoli]

Forgive me, I neglected to write youngest man to win a version of the Heavyweight Title. EVERYBODY knows Wilfred Benitez is the youngest man inclusive of all weight classes.

My Mum does not...

WBO was garbage at the time, nobody gave that Title any respect. It was WBA, WBC, and IBF.

The WBO was an off shoot of the WBA, so why were they garbage and the WBA were not? Also as we found out another off shoot of the WBA, the IBF, had a President taking bribes at the time, yet they get respect? And do not get me started on Suliman and his cronies...

Lineage was broken because lineal Champ Michael Spinks retired as Champ.

Spinks did not retire pre Tyson, with the exception of a short period in the late 1970's. I think you are getting confused when the Jinx gave up the IBF crown to fight Cooney. Then Spinks was debating whether to have the knee surgery he required, as the Tyson fight did not look like happening, on his and Lewis' terms.

In 1989, prior to the 1990 Douglas fight, I distinctly remember Ring Magazine had Mike Tyson at pound-for-pound #1.

Alas, not so:



Sorry about that, it is an old scan, and I do not have the original magazine now.

But here is The Ring's first offical pound for pound rankings:



Now, although there is no date, Carbajal was 32-2, which meant the rankings began around early 1995...

Pretty certain that was July of 95' and awarded days prior to his fight with Vasquez and stayed ahead of Jones jr until mid 96. Only belt he came in with that night I think as the crook Sullie'dman made the WBC 'unavailable' for whatever reason.

Have never understood or put much stock into P4P myself. Its all very up for interpretation and somewhat of a marketing tag line. Though the Rings intention was to call BS on the alphabet boys and recongnize who they deemed the very best with no smoking mirrors and massaged rankings.

[Master]

Tyson did become undisputed heavyweight champion forget the WBO and WBAA titles Brit Kid.