Muhammad Ali and the wins that should never have been.

[Vendettos]

I agree with you both, this isn't a "they should have" it's more of a "in hindsight".

I mean I do believe if foreman just took a few steps back, he would of had Ali.

Same with the Fraizer one, it annoys me that they called it at the 14th, I mean he was blind how long? Just a nod from Futch and Frazier won it.

But again I agree with you both.

[Beanflicker]

I agree I'd take Foreman in a rematch immediately after. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

In his book, he claimed he was poisoned and that Ali's people had the ropes loosened to Ali could lay on them. Can't blame him for being full of excuses, it must have really hurt is pride to get played like a fool.

And to me, Frazier going that hard against Ali blind in one eye and with his blood pressure issues, that's a victory in itself.

[Vendettos]

I agree I'd take Foreman in a rematch immediately after. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

In his book, he claimed he was poisoned and that Ali's people had the ropes loosened to Ali could lay on them. Can't blame him for being full of excuses, it must have really hurt is pride to get played like a fool.

And to me, Frazier going that hard against Ali blind in one eye and with his blood pressure issues, that's a victory in itself.

Yeah totally, but imagine how he felt finding out that Ali was gonna call it a day, where wanted to go on. That musta been a big issue as to why he resented him.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Big George was made to look foolish even in the early rounds before the rope a dope began, Ali continually stuck it to him and big George just relied totally on his brute strength to get him through and by round 8 he was spent, Ali was well ahead at the time of the KO. I don't think George would've beaten him in a rematch either, i believe that sometimes fighters meet their nemesis and big George was a perfect match for Ali.

The Thriller In Manila was exhausting for both fighters and the only way i can believe Ali would want to quit was of exhaustion, it was very hot there that day. Frazier was a ghastly mess and his face was all busted up. It was a good call to stop it. Both men should've retired after this fight.

Ali's questionable wins remain to this day the Norton fights!

[Master]

Big George did say that if he fought the fight again he would have simply used his jab more and paced himself better with the experience he gained after. At the time I think Ali would have won the rematch too.

Fraiser's corner did the right thing, no way was Angelo going to give the fight up with 1 round to go. Remember Ali wanted to retire after the Liston fight because they put something in his eye and Angelo did not let him.

[ICB]

Big George was made to look foolish even in the early rounds before the rope a dope began, Ali continually stuck it to him and big George just relied totally on his brute strength to get him through and by round 8 he was spent, Ali was well ahead at the time of the KO. I don't think George would've beaten him in a rematch either, i believe that sometimes fighters meet their nemesis and big George was a perfect match for Ali.

The Thriller In Manila was exhausting for both fighters and the only way i can believe Ali would want to quit was of exhaustion, it was very hot there that day. Frazier was a ghastly mess and his face was all busted up. It was a good call to stop it. Both men should've retired after this fight.

Ali's questionable wins remain to this day the Norton fights!

I don't care what anyone says but there's no way Ali won there 3rd fight, just look at both fighters after the fight. Norton is yelling at him like he's the winner, while Ali looks like a beaten fighter laying over in the corner.

Muhammad Ali has had a few questionable decisions.

Doug Jones
Earnie Shavers
Jimmy Young
Ken Norton

But to be fair to Ali 3 of those decision's were past his prime, and he was especially way over weight vs Jimmy Young. But then again thats no excuse if you lose a fight then you lose a fight, thats your problem you shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt because you didn't train properly.

But Muhammad Ali didn't duck anyone and when your facing top opposition all the time, your bound to have a few close decision's here and there.

[brocktonblockbust]

ali shoulda quitr after the thrilla in manila

[greynotsoold]

Does anybody remember his fight with Ron Lyle? Stopped in the 11th, I think, and I have always thought it was a bad stop, but then I haven't seen it since it happened. Anybody remeber?

[THE THIRD MAN]

Big George was made to look foolish even in the early rounds before the rope a dope began, Ali continually stuck it to him and big George just relied totally on his brute strength to get him through and by round 8 he was spent, Ali was well ahead at the time of the KO. I don't think George would've beaten him in a rematch either, i believe that sometimes fighters meet their nemesis and big George was a perfect match for Ali.

The Thriller In Manila was exhausting for both fighters and the only way i can believe Ali would want to quit was of exhaustion, it was very hot there that day. Frazier was a ghastly mess and his face was all busted up. It was a good call to stop it. Both men should've retired after this fight.

Ali's questionable wins remain to this day the Norton fights!

I don't care what anyone says but there's no way Ali won there 3rd fight, just look at both fighters after the fight. Norton is yelling at him like he's the winner, while Ali looks like a beaten fighter laying over in the corner.

Muhammad Ali has had a few questionable decisions.

Doug Jones
Earnie Shavers
Jimmy Young
Ken Norton

But to be fair to Ali 3 of those decision's were past his prime, and he was especially way over weight vs Jimmy Young. But then again thats no excuse if you lose a fight then you lose a fight, thats your problem you shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt because you didn't train properly.

But Muhammad Ali didn't duck anyone and when your facing top opposition all the time, your bound to have a few close decision's here and there.

The scoring at the end of the 14th round was: referee: Carlos Padilla 66-60, judge: Larry Nadayag 66-62, judge: Alfredo Quiazon 67-62.

I reckon they were on the mark. As for the fight itself, it was brutal, a war. But Ali was safely ahead on all three scorecards and really hammering Joe in the 13th and 14th rounds. So even if Ali did say “take the gloves off” at the end of the 14th, I don’t think he ever would have quit, and the record shows his trainer Angelo Dundee would never have let him quit. Of course Ali won the 3rd fight Ali, he won because Smokin' Joe didn’t come out for the last round, which I think was a humane move by his trainer, Eddie Futch. Of course, Frazier wouldn’t quit under any circumstances short of death. But he literally couldn’t see, which is a disadvantage when people are trying to knock your head off. Sadly this fight affected both men for the rest of their lives.

[IamInuit]

If you want to narrow it down to one fight then show me a round by round Jimmy Young card. I would like to know how any serious fight fan could award that to Ali. Break it down for me round by round.