Soldier butchered in street in Woolwich

[Gandalf]

Some of the views here reflect a savage disinterest in the rule of law. If you commit a crime there should always be a trial. Once you start discarding rule of law, you end up with all kinds of messiness and once you cross those lines there is no going back.

Lawless states exist in the world and they know who they are. Britain has been complicit in such regimes, but I wouldn't like it to become a 'shoot first and stoop to the gutter like the criminals' type of nation which all too obviously exist.

It has happened and though good for a bit of a media salesboost, I don't think it is a massively significant story. Any excuse to have a go at the Muslims really and the hate for Muslims is largely based upon propaganda and ignorance of what we do to them overseas. It should come as no surprise when some snap and want to wreak havoc. It isn't a quantum leap to see where the dislike of Britain comes from. It is a habitual invader of sovereign Muslim lands. Muslim attacks are a token act of resistance at best. One would have to be blind to fail to comprehend where anger comes from.

In some ways Britain is very lucky. Very few Muslims kill English people and yet the British are likely the reason why perhaps tens of thousands of Iraqi's have dead family members and that is just Iraq. These things are always comparable. What makes it worse is that the British government sponsored the Iraqi bloodshed. It should come as no surprise that the British are not loved by all that sail within her borders.

[TitoFan]

Muslims in shock after grandfather is killed on way home from mosque - Telegraph

What about the people who stabbed this guy ? should we torture them and then hang their bodies on display?

What happened in Woolwich was horrific but it was a knife crime, a cowardly murder carried out on the street. The media, the clueless government and half of the people reacting like it is an act of war are playing right into the hands of two British born dickheads. Who gave them the authority to speak for aggrieved Muslims from countries they have not even visited? Putting them on the front pages amounts to moral collusion with the pair of self righteous deluded madmen. "You people will never be safe" really? their both fucked after being shot so they are no threat and the war they want on British streets is being rejected by the vast majority of actual Muslims.

People commit these kinds of crimes, counting on a lengthy, drawn-out legal process with probabilities of being acquitted due to some technical snafu, or being imprisoned for life, with all their basic human needs met for free. At some point you have to draw the line and send a message to this type of human garbage, that heinous crimes of this sort will be met with swift, and life-altering consequences.

Or is that too "noncommittal" an answer?

No it is a bullshit answer. They wanted to die as Martyrs. I am saying by executing someone without a trial you lend their delusions creedence. They are common criminals. murderers.

Well... at least it's not "noncommittal".

Oh... and I'm sure by executing someone without a trial, that's going to bring out all the other martyrs of the world, who will want to get swiftly executed without the benefit of a trial. Makes all kinds of fucking sense.

[Beanz]

Muslims in shock after grandfather is killed on way home from mosque - Telegraph

What about the people who stabbed this guy ? should we torture them and then hang their bodies on display?

What happened in Woolwich was horrific but it was a knife crime, a cowardly murder carried out on the street. The media, the clueless government and half of the people reacting like it is an act of war are playing right into the hands of two British born dickheads. Who gave them the authority to speak for aggrieved Muslims from countries they have not even visited? Putting them on the front pages amounts to moral collusion with the pair of self righteous deluded madmen. "You people will never be safe" really? their both fucked after being shot so they are no threat and the war they want on British streets is being rejected by the vast majority of actual Muslims.

People commit these kinds of crimes, counting on a lengthy, drawn-out legal process with probabilities of being acquitted due to some technical snafu, or being imprisoned for life, with all their basic human needs met for free. At some point you have to draw the line and send a message to this type of human garbage, that heinous crimes of this sort will be met with swift, and life-altering consequences.

Or is that too "noncommittal" an answer?

No it is a bullshit answer. They wanted to die as Martyrs. I am saying by executing someone without a trial you lend their delusions creedence. They are common criminals. murderers.

Well... at least it's not "noncommittal".

Oh... and I'm sure by executing someone without a trial, that's going to bring out all the other martyrs of the world, who will want to get swiftly executed without the benefit of a trial. Makes all kinds of fucking sense.

We don't have the death penalty in Britain. Of course a Muslim extremist would want to die as a Martyr. That is the easy way out. The act of a coward.

[TitoFan]

We don't have the death penalty in Britain.

Probably the root cause of your problems.

[Beanz]

We don't have the death penalty in Britain.

Probably the root cause of your problems.

What a stupid thing to say. Do you really think that States and countries around the world that have the death penalty are free from murder ? Do you think having the death penalty in place would have stopped people blowing up a London Bus On which they sat? Do you really think that two guys callously and cowardly murdering an unarmed soldier or somebody stabbing an unarmed Grandad to death are the result of not having capital punishment ? What you are in effect arguing is that the guilt for these heinous acts somehow rests on the British people for abolishing hanging.

[El Kabong]

That attack happened BEFORE the Woolwich incident. Total C***s come in all colours. And yes of course far right groups are just as indiscriminate in their threatening.

Well do you just expect me to know that off hand?


Yes I agree on your view that assholes have 0 regard for geopolitical, ethnic, socioeconomic, etc boundaries.


What makes these people "far right"? I am just curious.


The point I was trying to make with the Muslims that murdered that soldier was
#1 There's video evidence of it
#2 There's an admission on the tape, while both guys are holding knives and their hands are bloody
#3 The guy threatens further violence

They're BLATANTLY guilty, they were literally caught "red handed" if you will....let's save everyone some time and trouble and just shoot the scum, like I need a jury to know those dudes are guilty they admitted it with the blood on their hands......ON CAMERA.

[El Kabong]

yet the British are likely the reason why perhaps tens of thousands of Iraqi's have dead family members and that is just Iraq.

2 words BULL...........CRAP

[Kirkland Laing]

I knew Muslims that would justify these murders too. They weren't nuts, they weren't extremists, they were guys who happened to be muslim, but they'd still defend it.

I have Muslim friends and they are just as outraged and horrified about this as I am....I think it all comes down to assimilation into the Western culture.

What gets on my nerves and what worries me are the people on the left who try to defend the Muslim culture of intolerance seemingly with no sense of irony as those same lefties love the Women's Rights movement and LGBT equality/acceptance movement and those very same hardline Muslims would CRUSH those other liberal platforms if they gained any power at all. The hardcore no dancing, no drinking, Christians are one thing, but they have NOTHING on the devout hardline Muslims who stone to death women who have been raped...it's like the lefties are being so open minded all the common sense fell out of their heads.

Exactly who is defending intolerant cultures?

CAIR for one

Explain.

[Kirkland Laing]

Now has the US had it's poor run of plays in Muslim nations, sure as fuck we have but who hasn't?

Lots of countries haven't bombed and killed innocent people in eight Muslim countries in the last few years or sent their military into various Muslim countries. And these countries aren't suffering terrorist attacks because of it!

If you're going to write off invading Muslim countries and killing vast numbers of Muslims, propping up dictators who keep hundreds of millions of Muslims living under tyranny for generations and so on as a "run of poor plays" then you can't expect any sympathy when people knock your skyscrapers down or bomb your sporting events. It's amazing this kind of thing doesn't happen every week.

[Gandalf]

yet the British are likely the reason why perhaps tens of thousands of Iraqi's have dead family members and that is just Iraq.

2 words BULL...........CRAP

Sure, the British didn't put a foot wrong in Iraq and merely provided water for the dehydrated people put at the mercy of insufferable U.N. sanctions being the heavenly types that we are.

You are the masters of police militarisation, the murderers of Bin Laden, torturers of Guantanamo and the main architects of Muslim grievances in the world and I am talking Bull? Of course I am to you when suggesting that we are the probable cause and that rule of law is a must.

The British went along with a lot of it and so it is logical to piece together invasions with occasional ethnic or religious disgruntlement.

[El Kabong]

Explain.

CAIR has ties to several terrorist organizations ( I'm shocked) so says DEMOCRATS Chuck Schumer & Dick Durbin

The late Seifeldin Ashmawy, publisher of the New Jersey-based Voice of Peace, called CAIR the champion of "extremists whose views do not represent Islam."

Randall ("Ismail") Royer, an American convert to Islam, served as CAIR's communications specialist and civil rights coordinator; today he sits in jail on terrorism-related charges. In June 2003, Royer and ten other young men, ages 23 to 35, known as the "Virginia jihad group," were indicted on forty-one counts of "conspiracy to train for and participate in a violent jihad overseas."

Ghassan Elashi, Bassam Khafagi and other terrorists have worked for CAIR

CAIR demanded the removal of a Los Angeles billboard describing Osama bin Laden as "the sworn enemy," finding this depiction offensive to Muslims. CAIR also leapt to bin Laden's defense, denying his responsibility for the twin East African embassy bombings.

More broadly, TheReligionofPeace.com website pointed out that "of the more than 3100 fatal Islamic terror attacks committed in the last four years, we have only seen CAIR specifically condemn 18."

In 1998, CAIR co-hosted an event at which an Egyptian Islamist leader, Wagdi Ghunaym, declared Jews to be the "descendants of the apes."

But I'm sure you'll brush these off as mere coincidences

[El Kabong]

Sure, the British didn't put a foot wrong in Iraq and merely provided water for the dehydrated people put at the mercy of insufferable U.N. sanctions being the heavenly types that we are.

You are the masters of police militarisation, the murderers of Bin Laden, torturers of Guantanamo and the main architects of Muslim grievances in the world and I am talking Bull? Of course I am to you when suggesting that we are the probable cause and that rule of law is a must.

The British went along with a lot of it and so it is logical to piece together invasions with occasional ethnic or religious disgruntlement.

You're late to this discussion the majority of Iraqi civilians killed during the war were killed by their own people in the Shia vs Sunni fighting.

[Gandalf]

Sure, the British didn't put a foot wrong in Iraq and merely provided water for the dehydrated people put at the mercy of insufferable U.N. sanctions being the heavenly types that we are.

You are the masters of police militarisation, the murderers of Bin Laden, torturers of Guantanamo and the main architects of Muslim grievances in the world and I am talking Bull? Of course I am to you when suggesting that we are the probable cause and that rule of law is a must.

The British went along with a lot of it and so it is logical to piece together invasions with occasional ethnic or religious disgruntlement.

You're late to this discussion the majority of Iraqi civilians killed during the war were killed by their own people in the Shia vs Sunni fighting.

So, ignore the fact that your nation along with poodle Britain invaded a nation after crippling them with sanctions for a decade, and then decided to strike while the iron was hot (or the people left depleted) and then want to say they killed each other. That is pretty nifty, Lyle. Classy.

[El Kabong]

So, ignore the fact that your nation along with poodle Britain invaded a nation after crippling them with sanctions for a decade, and then decided to strike while the iron was hot (or the people left depleted) and then want to say they killed each other. That is pretty nifty, Lyle. Classy.

What happened was the direct result of Saddam Hussein being stubborn. When the Police say "show me your hands" you put your hands up....Saddam didn't heed the warnings.

Sorry the Iraqi civilians got caught in a war zone, but it happens man, it happened in England during The Blitz, and all throughout the history of man. Why you don't directly condemn Obama for drone strikes which murder indiscriminantly is confusing to me, but hey.....YOU are miles....you ARE miles....and you do as you want and death to those who disagree with you

[Gandalf]

So, ignore the fact that your nation along with poodle Britain invaded a nation after crippling them with sanctions for a decade, and then decided to strike while the iron was hot (or the people left depleted) and then want to say they killed each other. That is pretty nifty, Lyle. Classy.

What happened was the direct result of Saddam Hussein being stubborn. When the Police say "show me your hands" you put your hands up....Saddam didn't heed the warnings.

Sorry the Iraqi civilians got caught in a war zone, but it happens man, it happened in England during The Blitz, and all throughout the history of man. Why you don't directly condemn Obama for drone strikes which murder indiscriminantly is confusing to me, but hey.....YOU are miles....you ARE miles....and you do as you want and death to those who disagree with you

What. Are. You. Gibbering. About.

You invaded a country in Iraq based on a LIE (an obvious one) and I have ALWAYS attacked Obama's drone attacks. This is where it gets silly, I am the person that has attacked drones more than anyone else here and suddenly I am not doing it enough and of course you are on about Obama. Just nuts. You are trying to deflect, but are doing so in a way that is too obvious and weak.

If I kill someone then there should be a trial and everything should be laid open, you would much rather just kill someone and hide the body. It is just Goodfella's silliness. It is too easy to just kill and forget about a trial because there is often a lot more than meets the eye and only those avoiding something want to sweep things under a rug.

The Bin Laden murderer did it just how you liked. I'm surprised he doesn't get even the occasional pass from a right wing thug like yourself.