A few gems of knowledge from my weekend...

[Cressa121]

Interesting stuff. On the "Phantom punch" fight, I've always wondered how it would have played out had it happened when it was originally scheduled. Iirc they were meant to fight in November '64 but Ali fell ill a week or 2 before the fight and it was postponed. Liston had reportedly trained like a demon for it because of the embarrassment he felt after losing the first fight. By the time it was rescheduled for May '65 he couldn't bring himself to go through that kind of camp again and had become more indifferent towards it. Chances are he'd have lost handily again, but it'd have been more interesting for sure.

[IamInuit]

Interesting stuff. On the "Phantom punch" fight, I've always wondered how it would have played out had it happened when it was originally scheduled. Iirc they were meant to fight in November '64 but Ali fell ill a week or 2 before the fight and it was postponed. Liston had reportedly trained like a demon for it because of the embarrassment he felt after losing the first fight. By the time it was rescheduled for May '65 he couldn't bring himself to go through that kind of camp again and had become more indifferent towards it. Chances are he'd have lost handily again, but it'd have been more interesting for sure.

I’ve re-watched the footage more then I care to remember and for the life of me I cannot see the punch being that crippling. You cant see Alis feet in the first clip but he seems to be going backwards and on his toes. The second clip seems to confirm this. Although Sonny’s wife and family deny it, after pouring over the available evidence over the years, there is very little doubt in my mind that heroin could have been a factor during his preparation and mentally the night of the fight. He was hanging out with Louis at the time and was probably getting Joe’s heroin for him and at the time of his death years later the coroner reported tracks on his arm and not just one poke from a hot shot. Sonny Liston lived two lives.

[Cressa121]

Interesting stuff. On the "Phantom punch" fight, I've always wondered how it would have played out had it happened when it was originally scheduled. Iirc they were meant to fight in November '64 but Ali fell ill a week or 2 before the fight and it was postponed. Liston had reportedly trained like a demon for it because of the embarrassment he felt after losing the first fight. By the time it was rescheduled for May '65 he couldn't bring himself to go through that kind of camp again and had become more indifferent towards it. Chances are he'd have lost handily again, but it'd have been more interesting for sure.

I’ve re-watched the footage more then I care to remember and for the life of me I cannot see the punch being that crippling. You cant see Alis feet in the first clip but he seems to be going backwards and on his toes. The second clip seems to confirm this. Although Sonny’s wife and family deny it, after pouring over the available evidence over the years, there is very little doubt in my mind that heroin could have been a factor during his preparation and mentally the night of the fight. He was hanging out with Louis at the time and was probably getting Joe’s heroin for him and at the time of his death years later the coroner reported tracks on his arm and not just one poke from a hot shot. Sonny Liston lived two lives.

I didn't know about Liston's links with Louis and heroin.

I agree about the punch, it looks to be nothing more than a quick counter right thrown to score. There doesn't seem to be a great deal behind it and I don't see how it could really be a fight ending shot. I've always felt that it was a legitimate knockdown in that Liston has just lunged in with his own left hand and is off balance when he's caught, but that he could have easily gotten up and beat the count. I remember reading an interview with Liston where he said he stayed down for longer because Ali was stood over him. He said he was worried he'd hit him as he was getting back to his feet.

[El Kabong]

I thought Joe Louis was more into cocaine after his fighting days and not heroin...hmm, interesting.

I also didn't know of the troubling links with Liston's ownership stake in a certain company which profited off of his loss to Ali, very curious.

Anywho, here's Trainer and Heavyweight contender Jonathan Banks

[Master]

I thought the punch was real mainly because he carries on fighting after Jersey Joe was being indecisive and not stopping the fight. If he wanted to go down he would have stayed down but they actually throw punches until the ref stops the fight.