Congratulations Egypt!

[Howlin Mad Missy]

and the people got rid of him, you should be pleased

[greynotsoold]

The lesson to be learned is that the power of the people determines the course of their government. Get in the streets and fight.

[X]

The people didn't get rid of Morsi, the army did.

This is a bit of a dilemma: no matter whether we like it or not, the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood were voted into power through Egypt's first ever free elections.

'Some' people (and we have no idea how many, nor what proportion of the population they were, came out on the streets to protest. The Army then intervened and - technically - carried out a military coup.

I'm not sure we would think that was OK usually.

So ...... democracy is a good thing - as long as you vote the right people in. If you make a mistake and vote in a useless government (and I can think of a few times this has happened in Western democracies), then it's OK to act undemocratically in the name of democracy?

Confused

[Howlin Mad Missy]

The people didn't get rid of Morsi, the army did.

This is a bit of a dilemma: no matter whether we like it or not, the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood were voted into power through Egypt's first ever free elections.

'Some' people (and we have no idea how many, nor what proportion of the population they were, came out on the streets to protest. The Army then intervened and - technically - carried out a military coup.

I'm not sure we would think that was OK usually.

So ...... democracy is a good thing - as long as you vote the right people in. If you make a mistake and vote in a useless government (and I can think of a few times this has happened in Western democracies), then it's OK to act undemocratically in the name of democracy?

Confused

um, poll tax?

maybe people should actually listen to the people who live there and not the snippets on the news over here.

The egyptian people acted in a way that probably scares western govts. The way you lot are acting is as if they should have sat back and continue to wreck the country for a few more years?

[El Kabong]

The military (luckily for everyone) seem to have a good grasp of things and aren't overreaching their bounds. They are the sole reason Egypt is not a gigantic clusterfuck right now....granted I would rather the United States not fund them, but I do understand why we're Allied with them more so than the leaders of that country.

The leadership of a nation does not always have complete control over the military, history shows this to be the case more often than not.

[X]

The people didn't get rid of Morsi, the army did.

This is a bit of a dilemma: no matter whether we like it or not, the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood were voted into power through Egypt's first ever free elections.

'Some' people (and we have no idea how many, nor what proportion of the population they were, came out on the streets to protest. The Army then intervened and - technically - carried out a military coup.

I'm not sure we would think that was OK usually.

So ...... democracy is a good thing - as long as you vote the right people in. If you make a mistake and vote in a useless government (and I can think of a few times this has happened in Western democracies), then it's OK to act undemocratically in the name of democracy?

Confused

um, poll tax?

maybe people should actually listen to the people who live there and not the snippets on the news over here.

The egyptian people acted in a way that probably scares western govts. The way you lot are acting is as if they should have sat back and continue to wreck the country for a few more years?

The thing I like about you is that you always have an opinion, and you stand by it.

Other people do too, though

The poll tax was not in any way comparable to what happened in Egypt. I don't recall the Army removing the government?

Incidentally, I lived in the middle east for 12 years, and worked as a Divemaster in Egypt for another 5. I speak fluent Arabic and have many close Egyptian friends all over Egypt who I have been communicating with to check they are OK. I think I know enough about Egypt first hand to have a view as valid as yours

[Howlin Mad Missy]

The people didn't get rid of Morsi, the army did.

This is a bit of a dilemma: no matter whether we like it or not, the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood were voted into power through Egypt's first ever free elections.

'Some' people (and we have no idea how many, nor what proportion of the population they were, came out on the streets to protest. The Army then intervened and - technically - carried out a military coup.

I'm not sure we would think that was OK usually.

So ...... democracy is a good thing - as long as you vote the right people in. If you make a mistake and vote in a useless government (and I can think of a few times this has happened in Western democracies), then it's OK to act undemocratically in the name of democracy?

Confused

um, poll tax?

maybe people should actually listen to the people who live there and not the snippets on the news over here.

The egyptian people acted in a way that probably scares western govts. The way you lot are acting is as if they should have sat back and continue to wreck the country for a few more years?

The thing I like about you is that you always have an opinion, and you stand by it.

Other people do too, though

The poll tax was not in any way comparable to what happened in Egypt. I don't recall the Army removing the government?

Incidentally, I lived in the middle east for 12 years, and worked as a Divemaster in Egypt for another 5. I speak fluent Arabic and have many close Egyptian friends all over Egypt who I have been communicating with to check they are OK. I think I know enough about Egypt first hand to have a view as valid as yours

then you'll know the western media has been pretty much pro MB /mowsi despite the killings they've been carrying out?

The army supported the will of the people, what's more democratic than that? They acted with conscience, shame ours don't.



and you've NOT answered the question, do you think the people of egypt should have sat round for another 3 years or so and watched their country go further down the shitter?

The day after he got booted out food prices dropped!

Just because the people of egypt don't see democracy on your terms doesn't make it undemocratic. They see it as democratic, not a coup.

If you were still there as a dive master you'd be out of a job since most of the tourists have fucked off.

[Andre]

Is that act of murder shown there, done in the name of Islam?

[X]

The people didn't get rid of Morsi, the army did.

This is a bit of a dilemma: no matter whether we like it or not, the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood were voted into power through Egypt's first ever free elections.

'Some' people (and we have no idea how many, nor what proportion of the population they were, came out on the streets to protest. The Army then intervened and - technically - carried out a military coup.

I'm not sure we would think that was OK usually.

So ...... democracy is a good thing - as long as you vote the right people in. If you make a mistake and vote in a useless government (and I can think of a few times this has happened in Western democracies), then it's OK to act undemocratically in the name of democracy?

Confused

um, poll tax?

maybe people should actually listen to the people who live there and not the snippets on the news over here.

The egyptian people acted in a way that probably scares western govts. The way you lot are acting is as if they should have sat back and continue to wreck the country for a few more years?

The thing I like about you is that you always have an opinion, and you stand by it.

Other people do too, though

The poll tax was not in any way comparable to what happened in Egypt. I don't recall the Army removing the government?

Incidentally, I lived in the middle east for 12 years, and worked as a Divemaster in Egypt for another 5. I speak fluent Arabic and have many close Egyptian friends all over Egypt who I have been communicating with to check they are OK. I think I know enough about Egypt first hand to have a view as valid as yours

then you'll know the western media has been pretty much pro MB /mowsi despite the killings they've been carrying out?

The army supported the will of the people, what's more democratic than that? They acted with conscience, shame ours don't.



and you've NOT answered the question, do you think the people of egypt should have sat round for another 3 years or so and watched their country go further down the shitter?

The day after he got booted out food prices dropped!

Just because the people of egypt don't see democracy on your terms doesn't make it undemocratic. They see it as democratic, not a coup.

If you were still there as a dive master you'd be out of a job since most of the tourists have fucked off.

Yep, the Western media have been pro Morsi (and Mubarak was a creation of the West, just like most of the more recent Arab dictators)... and, yep, I would be out of a job because the tourists haven't been going there for about 4 years now because of the unrest. Last year was a good one for the tourist trade, but this will have frightened people away again for the next few years. Loads of people there depend on tourism

However ..... the army carried out the will of the army (not of 'the people'). It's very fragmented over there so I'm not sure anybody (including Egyptians) really knows what 'the will of the people is' even if some sort of consensus existed.

Food prices dropped because the interim government increased the subsidy on food, which they can't afford to do for long. It will rise again soon.

I think we are disagreeing on what 'democracy' means. My point was that kicking Morsi out (putting aside what he was like etc) was undemocratic. Strictly speaking, the Egyptians SHOULD have sat around while their country was going down the shitter .... that's what democracy is. You vote someone in for an agreed term of power. Democracy also says you can oust them through a vote of no confidence. They didn't do that, they tried to start another revolution until the army shat itself and got involved.

Im not saying that was the right thing to do, but my point is that it is not democratic for the army to choose to boot out elected politicians.

At least lets not pretend that what is happening, and going to happen is in any way democratic, because it isn't. The Egyptians might eventually arrive at the right answer for their country, but it wont be democracy in action.

Haver you ever been to North Africa, or Egypt ...... I am not goading you or anything, but most of our views are usually formed from the snippets of poorly reported vested-interest news there is. I was in Dahab when it was bombed and I was disgusted by the hordes of well fed journalists who descended on the place, looking for a story with no regard for people's loss or misery. They spent most of the time in 5 star hotels dining on expenses and when I actually watched the BBC News 24 service while I was there, it bore no resemblance to what I could see out of the window

[El Kabong]

and the people got rid of him, you should be pleased

No. Obama hitched his wagon to the Arab Spring and stability was sacrificed for change. I'm not saying Mubarak and his ilk were perfect but #1 30 years worth of Egypt peacefully coexisting with Israel and #2 Egypt isn't a colony of the US they aren't a satellite state of ours how about we not get involved?

All the "anti-Obama" folks knew Morsi was shit and the Muslim Brotherhood was evil and now here we are and yet again Obama looks like a fool and makes the country look foolish too

[Andre]

The middle east is erupting on a few different fronts, Iraqs at it again.

[El Kabong]

The middle east is erupting on a few different fronts, Iraqs at it again.

I'm a little more worried about Turkey because that's heading towards Europe and we don't need further troubles breaking out there.

[brocktonblockbust]

The middle east is erupting on a few different fronts, Iraqs at it again.

I'm a little more worried about Turkey because that's heading towards Europe and we don't need further troubles breaking out there.

thank God I got out of there last year.

[Andre]

We need to not get drawn into any of these conflicts at all.
Or one day we the west will have too many fronts to deal with and enemies in too many different directions to be able to control any of them. North Korea would be the last straw for us if we were all drawn into another war first. Then we have the small insane groups who would put the accelerator down too,they have the longest memories and are born into blaming us for everything.

[Kirkland Laing]

and the people got rid of him, you should be pleased

No. Obama hitched his wagon to the Arab Spring and stability was sacrificed for change. I'm not saying Mubarak and his ilk were perfect but #1 30 years worth of Egypt peacefully coexisting with Israel and #2 Egypt isn't a colony of the US they aren't a satellite state of ours how about we not get involved?

All the "anti-Obama" folks knew Morsi was shit and the Muslim Brotherhood was evil and now here we are and yet again Obama looks like a fool and makes the country look foolish too

So what you're saying is, the dictatorship that ruled Egypt for decades was a good thing and America should have continued to prop it up even though Egyptians were on the street demanding democratic elections and American foreign policy is supposed to be all about spreading democracy. America should have prevented those elections by some magical means, made all those Egyptians just go home and continue to live under dictatorship.

And even though we've been propping up the previous dictatorship for decades you now think America should not get involved, even though you're blaming Obama for not getting involved to keep the dictatorship in power a couple of years ago. Got it.