Message to all Americans: your time is up

[Gandalf]

Why should people have adjusted? When you are in your 50's and have worked in that factory all your life, surely that means something. It also means a lot when neccessities were getting more expensive so you couldn't save enough and then they say YOU are too expensive, we are going to China! It also means a lot more when the jobs have largely been shipped to a country that pretty much provides slave labour and is supposedly a communist menace. It's a heist. I suppose 'communism' and sharia law go out of the window when the elite want to pillage their own economies in order to please the 1% of the populace with a serious claim on stocks and shares. Globalisation is the biggest con as all it has meant is that corporations have moved on the hunt for cheap labour and the only people who truly advance are the shareholders in those corporations which is the American elite, and now the Chinese elite.

More stats... NEW PAPYRUS: The Rapid Decline of the American Middle Class

I don't think anybody truly imagines life as good as generations past, but what has taken place is a systematic assault upon the vast majority of the population. The business elites and Wall Street have commited a vast money grab in the name of globalisation which basically means swarming like locusts to pick up cheap labour in places with few labour laws and even less of a pretence at being democratic.

[VictorCharlie]

People should adjust b/c the world is not static and they have to or hazard getting passed by. Much of that article is either showing how many middle class people do a piss poor job of planning and saving or more class warfare. Middle class families and the poor aren't' doing bad b/c other people are doing well. There is no finite amount of wealth where if the rich have X percent it means the rest are screwed. I know you dismiss my life as just an anecdotal outlier but our middle class would do well to be educated on how people like me build a good life instead of demonizing people that have been very successful. All that being said, do you have some solution to the issues you have brought up?

[Gandalf]

The world is not static, so in that sense changes can be implemented with enough drive and pressure put on the government. Accepting what is happening is only going to see further deterioration, so people need to take to the streets and revolt. They need to demand an end to military spending, excessive lobbying etc and to demand a more progressive tax system and for American politicians to represent American people over corporations and the elite. Health care needs to be cheaper, military needs to be cheaper, the super rich should give back considering they have got rich largely on the back of selling jobs to the cheapest bidder. That effective factory should not be closed down because of WalMart, but instead Walmart should be held to account for being un-American. I am in favour of the government being involved to help American people keep their jobs and if a job is lost to give them new skills.

What has taken place is so blatant and obvious and the agenda so clear. They have attempted to shell America. When there has been a heist so big and where Obama will do as he pleases no matter what, I do believe the approaxch to change is to be found in models overseas where people are showing what you do. Maybe it will take further decline before anything happens. In the face of repression and decline protest is always the way.

This topic is depressing and I don't really want to talk about it anymore. It's a waste of time. The statistics are there, you have the data and talk about Warren being a native Indian is really just an absurd distraction. Maybe generations back, but now? I don't think it really matters. We all go back somewhere. Anyway, watch the lecture and take it or leave it. It's depressing because none of this needed to happen. Globalisation was the great academic con, and sure you can buy food cheaper (reversing heavily in recent years), but when you gut a manufacturing sector. Well, I don't think is any way to treat people. 'We will become a service based economy!'. What a fucking stupid idea and how well it has turned out, the economists are liars and quite predictably the rich have got richer and the poor have expanded.

[Gandalf]

Also quit with the demonising element. I respect people that do well for themselves and that means both you and KS. The only element I question is the military aspect as I find it impossible to reconcile politicians saying shove and people going into wars that they know are nonsense. That aspect I find very sketchy and could never imagine myself being put in that position, but asides from that bar work, teaching, some aspects of the military, those are standup things. I don't dismiss your life nor that of KS. I am sure you are doing well, and it is better that more are doing better too. I want people to live better and more efficient lives.

I've pushed my arguments more on one side, but personally I believe that self moderation and being more careful are important too. I agree with you and KS there. I don't think you should get married have 2 kids and then realise you have no money or permanent home and then get into a mountain of debt to pay for it. That is called stupidity and that is where I get annoyed with humans as they do seem to make a lot of poor decisions. At the same time though, it isn't fair that the basics are 76% more expensive today and that is largely money going straight to the 1%. I don't see how that can be justified. Personal decision making is being taken away from people then. You can choose to delay buying a new suit, but you have to pay the rent.

I pay low rents, low taxes, have a cheap car, cheap healthcare, no children, and both of us work and as a result life is very easy. Those things are a tiny proportion of our income, but I predict it will get worse here. Having the ability to control your own disposable income is very important considering the world we live in people should be more prudent. Like you and KS, I am careful and aware. You don't need to join the rat race. I talk about being careful, but society here is much like America. People are told that they must have those children, and the big car, and the mortgage, and here private education is very costly. As a result, you have a society, with less taxes, but it does get gobbled up in private education and the silly keeping up with the Jones'. Again, it means a country living on credit to alarming levels and most don't need to do that.

Anyway, argument done because it is depressing and I am hungry.