The Economic Crisis (The Fall of America & the Western World)

[brocktonblockbust]

[Kirkland Laing]

I'm not insulting you. I'm just making a basic statement of fact. US bonds are not issued by the Fed, they're issued by the Treasury. If you don't know stuff like that you won't even pass high school economics 101. That's just a simple fact, not an insult at all. Trust me, if I insulted you you'd know all about it. I'm absolutely elite world class at taking the piss out of people and hurting their feelings and I don't do it because I don't want to get banned.

My advice to you is to read a wide variety of sources about the economy and the financial system. If you're just going to read/watch/listen to the nutjobs who've been wrongly predicting FIERY DEATH SPIRALS for five years now you're going to continue to be wrong. If you read other sources for a year or three you'll understand that it isn't a conspiracy that we use core inflation to measure inflation, why food and fuel aren't counted, why we don't have inflation despite printing so much money and so on. I already explained these points endlessly over the years, I can remember some months ago explaining to you about how we count inflation the way we do. If you're going to argue about this stuff you should know the absolute basic, Janet and John high school level stuff at least. And if you're going to insist on the FIERY DEATH SPIRAL you should at least come up with a definitive date when it's going to happen.

[brocktonblockbust]

OK we're cool on the perceived insult thing. Ill give you that .... Now......

you're missing the main points... its pedantic to keep hammering about the Fed/Treasury thing OK fine, I stated it backwards....but that aint the point my friend.

YOunever address the MAIN POINT which is this whole thing is a shell game. Do you understand what I mean by that?

[killersheep]

OK we're cool on the perceived insult thing. Ill give you that .... Now......

you're missing the main points... its pedantic to keep hammering about the Fed/Treasury thing OK fine, I stated it backwards....but that aint the point my friend.

YOunever address the MAIN POINT which is this whole thing is a shell game. Do you understand what I mean by that?

So the shell game is who issues the bonds?
I'm fairly certain Mr. Laing has debunked EVERYTHING you have posited.
The strange thing is in my industry there are a fair number of people with various degrees from Thunderbird, they understand these basics a lot better and never quote hacks on youtube as
evidence for anything.

Also I have to track the gold markets everyday as it is part of my supply chain. It's been obvious to me that gold was not going to maintain it's meteoric rise in value, despite what gold salesmen would say.
Here's a chart of GLD an ETF that tracks gold prices (multiply by 10 to get the value)

If your logic (and the crux of your argument) is that the rise of gold price
is representative of a loss of value in the dollar, than the inverse must also
be true right?

And gold has lost roughly 30% of it's value from it's peak.

SPDR Gold Trust ETF Chart - Yahoo! Finance

[Kirkland Laing]

OK we're cool on the perceived insult thing. Ill give you that .... Now......

you're missing the main points... its pedantic to keep hammering about the Fed/Treasury thing OK fine, I stated it backwards....but that aint the point my friend.

YOunever address the MAIN POINT which is this whole thing is a shell game. Do you understand what I mean by that?

Explain to me exactly what you mean by "shell game".

[VictorCharlie]

OK we're cool on the perceived insult thing. Ill give you that .... Now......

you're missing the main points... its pedantic to keep hammering about the Fed/Treasury thing OK fine, I stated it backwards....but that aint the point my friend.

YOunever address the MAIN POINT which is this whole thing is a shell game. Do you understand what I mean by that?

So the shell game is who issues the bonds?
I'm fairly certain Mr. Laing has debunked EVERYTHING you have posited.
The strange thing is in my industry there are a fair number of people with various degrees from Thunderbird, they understand these basics a lot better and never quote hacks on youtube as
evidence for anything.

Also I have to track the gold markets everyday as it is part of my supply chain. It's been obvious to me that gold was not going to maintain it's meteoric rise in value, despite what gold salesmen would say.
Here's a chart of GLD an ETF that tracks gold prices (multiply by 10 to get the value)

If your logic (and the crux of your argument) is that the rise of gold price
is representative of a loss of value in the dollar, than the inverse must also
be true right?

And gold has lost roughly 30% of it's value from it's peak.

SPDR Gold Trust ETF Chart - Yahoo! Finance

Who are you? Nice to see you slumming again in the off topic areas.

[brocktonblockbust]

OK we're cool on the perceived insult thing. Ill give you that .... Now......

you're missing the main points... its pedantic to keep hammering about the Fed/Treasury thing OK fine, I stated it backwards....but that aint the point my friend.

YOunever address the MAIN POINT which is this whole thing is a shell game. Do you understand what I mean by that?

Explain to me exactly what you mean by "shell game".

Now you see it. Now you don’t. YOu never heard of it? QE was the Fed’s scam. Doing it won’t resolve economic problems. They’re getting worse while Bernanke and the idiot who inherited his "job", the ECB, Bank of England, Bank of Japan etc... FIDDLE like Nero my friend. Banks got bailed out. We got sold out. Laing ti ain't hard to understand. Thunderbirds can have their own opinions. Having 1 opinion or another doesnt mean you dont understand economics. Helicopter Ben operated by Abraham Maslow’s maxim that “if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.” Yes Helicopter Ben, how fitting isnt it? For nearly five years, credit went for speculation, big salaries and bonuses. It hasn’t been for the economy to stimulate growth and create jobs. Since September 2007, the Fed cut interest rates from 5.25 to .25%. Surviving investment banks became commercial ones to get free money unavailable to ordinary folks. They scammed tens of trillions. How much is kept secret. It’s at least $19 trillion and may be up to two and half times that much. Hundreds of billions went to Fannie, Freddie, AIG, the automakers and others. At the same time, millions lost jobs, homes and futures. Who cares about them when only money power and helping corporate favorites matter, right Laing . In fall 2008, $700 billion in TARP funds were created. The Fed bought commercial paper from non-financial firms. It gave $540 billion to money market funds. It gave Citigroup $280 billion for its liabilities and $140 billion for Bank of America. Obama’s $787 billion stimulus went mostly (in the form of tax breaks) to corporate favorites and rich scumbag elites---like they didn't have enough already. QE II, QE I, Operation Twist, QE III. THEN QE INFINITY!!!

The Fed generously helped troubled European banks and its balance sheet exploded. Now its over $3.6 trillion and rising, if it was a country it would be the world’s fifth largest. One failed program followed another. US median income is lower than when the National Bureau of Economic Research declared recession over in June 2009. hahaha Yeah Laing with all that free money, perhaps it's over for Wall Street, not Main Street.

Boosting demand is needed by putting money in the pockets of consumers – but QE infinity will NOT do it. And better alternatives aren’t chosen for some odd reason, gee, wonder why, hmmmm? QE goes straight into bank reserve accounts, and banks can’t lend their reserves. They sit there helping no one needing it most. The Fed's genius plan is to buy mortgage backed securities till the motherfucking cows come home. Doing it won’t help homeowners. Bank balance sheets won’t change. You should know that QE takes something on the asset side of bank balance sheets (MBS or other toxic junk) and replaces it with electronically-generated dollars. Don't tell me I have to brush up on economic theory my friend. We all know they become excess reserves. They’re not spent or extended in loans. They’re mostly lent to other banks that need reserves. Money sitting in bank reserves can’t stimulate growth. Since QE I, the monetary base rose, but circulating money supply increased no faster than in the previous decade. At the same time, loans declined. QE II was no different. Why expect QE III or QE Whatever The Fuck to turn around failure? What about QE for small business, troubled states and municipalities, low-interest student loans, and help for troubled homeowners?

Dallas Fed President Richard Fisher said all QE will do is keep inflation expectations elevated while doing little or nothing to create growth and jobs. And it doesnt take his comments to understand this.

If that’s not bad enough Laing, just wait. The worst is yet to come. Only its timeline isn’t known. If past is prologue, perhaps (hahaha) it’s coming at a time of irrational exuberance when least expected. It wouldn’t be the first time would it now, hmmmm? Basic common sense. All you want to do is pedantically get me to call out a date for this catastrophe, this train wreck. Sorry I'm not God, I aint callin' no dates. Hell I dont even pick rounds in Saddo's Prediction COntests

[Kirkland Laing]

Nobody has scammed tens of trillions of dollars from anybody. That's just nuts. Maybe you'd like to provide evidence of where these tens of trillions came from and went to?

And QE isn't some magic wand to end all problems. It's just the only monetary tool that the Fed have to stimulate growth in the current situation. I'm sure you were predicting imminent economic meltdown the moment the Fed tripled the monetary base overnight in 2008. So five years later where is the meltdown? What'll happen is that you'll keep predicitng it right up until the goons you read stop saying it's going to happen and start off on some new tangent to get their market wetting the bed about something else. And when that happens you'll completely forget about the FIERY DEATH SPIRAL that didn't happen and then statrt endless posts predicting another BLOCK CAPS EVENT that won't happen either.

[Kirkland Laing]

Ah.

QE Shell Game
By Stephen Lendman
9-23-12

Now you see it. Now you don't. QE III is the Fed's latest scam. A previous article quoted PIMCO's Bill Gross. He called it money printing "till the cows come home."

Doing it won't resolve festering economic problems. They're getting worse while Bernanke, the ECB, Bank of England, Bank of Japan, Congress, Obama, and like-minded world leaders fiddle.

After crisis conditions erupted in fall 2007, one scam followed another. Occupy Wall Street is right. "Banks got bailed out. We got sold out." It hasn't stopped and won't until either people rebel or the whole house of cards Greenspan/Bernanke built collapses.

Helicopter Ben operates by Abraham Maslow's maxim that "if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."

Hammering all day won't help. He's buying time. Little else. An eventual day of reckoning looms. The longer it's delayed, the greater the collapse when it comes.

It's not if, just when. Bad policy assures bad results. It's not rocket science. It's simple truth.

If properly used, QE could have worked and still can if redirected to where it's needed. It's not and won't be. For nearly five years, credit went for speculation, big salaries and bonuses. It hasn't been for the economy to stimulate growth and create jobs.

Financial warfare rages. America and other societies are affected. Ordinary people are hurt most. Hard times keep getting harder.

Since September 2007, the Fed cut interest rates from 5.25 to .25%. Surviving investment banks became commercial ones to get free money unavailable to ordinary folks.

They scammed trillions. How much is kept secret. It's at least $9 trillion and may be up to two and half times that much.

Hundreds of billions went to Fannie, Freddie, AIG, the automakers and others. At the same time, millions lost jobs, homes and futures. Who cares about them when only money power and helping corporate favorites matter.

In fall 2008, $700 billion in TARP funds were created. The Fed bought commercial paper from non-financial firms. It offered $540 billion to backstop money market funds.

It handed Citigroup $280 billion for its liabilities and $140 billion for Bank of America's.

Obama's $787 billion stimulus went mostly (in the form of tax breaks) to corporate favorites and rich elites already with too much. QE II followed QE I, then Operation Twist, and now QE III.

The Fed provided generous back door funding for troubled European banks. Its balance sheet exploded. At over $2.8 trillion and rising, if it was a country it would be the world's fifth largest.

One failed program followed another. Economic duress deepens. Current US median income is lower than when the National Bureau of Economic Research declared recession over in June 2009. Perhaps for Wall Street, not Main Street.

Record numbers of Americans need food stamps. More join their ranks monthly. Real unemployment approaches 23%. Average unemployment duration is near a record high.

Jobs for millions wanting them aren't available. Most that are don't pay enough to get by. At the same time, vital benefits are eroding when they're most needed.

Instead of constructive policies that work, money printing madness that won't substitutes. Ellen Brown does some of the best financial analysis around. On September 21, she discussed why QE III won't stimulate growth and what will.

Boosting "aggregate demand" is needed. Getting it takes putting "money in the pockets of consumers - but QE3 won't do it." Better alternatives aren't chosen.

QE goes "straight into bank reserve accounts, and banks can't lend their reserves." They sit there helping no one needing it most. Bernanke's plan is buy mortgage backed securities (MBS) till the cows come home.

Doing it won't help homeowners. Bank balance sheets won't change nor will circulating money amounts. QE takes "something on the asset side of" bank balance sheets (MBS or other toxic junk) "and replaces it with electronically-generated dollars."

They become excess reserves. They're not spent or extended in loans. They're mostly "lent to other banks that need reserves..."

In other words, money sitting in bank reserves can't stimulate growth. Since QE I, the monetary base rose, but circulating money supply increased no "faster than in the previous decade." At the same time, loans declined.

QE II was no different. Why expect QE III to turn around failure. At the same time, workable alternatives aren't chosen. What about QE for small business, troubled states and municipalities, low-interest student loans, and help for troubled homeowners.

Get it in the coffers and pockets where it's most needed and will do the most good. Imagine the difference these alternatives could make. Whenever they're adopted, or variations thereof, they work as intended. Why not now.

Money into the economy in any amount for growth and job creation has little if any effect on inflation. Why not do what works. It's not rocket science. It's simple truth, and Bernanke knows it.

Of course, he's Wall Street's man. They hired him. He does what he's told. His concern is their interests. Serving them leaves ordinary people high and dry. Don't expect that leopard to change its spots, except perhaps when the house he built collapses if he's still around and accountable.

On September 21, the London Telegraph quoted former Fed chairman Paul Volker saying QE III won't work. Nor will ECB money madness. He addressed a Gleneagles, Scotland conference.

He called QE III "the most extreme easing of monetary policy" he could recall. "Monetary policy is about as easy as it can get. Another round of QE is understandable - but it will fail to fix the problem."

"There is so much liquidity in the market that adding more is not going to change the economy." Banks are hoarding cash. They're not lending. They're speculating or stashing it in tax havens.

Corporations are doing the same thing. Why hire and invest when weak conditions aren't improving.

Volker said inflation isn't a problem now, but watch out. "The risk is that central bankers are not able to tighten policy in time. Will they be able to pull back fast enough from loose monetary policy?"

The same goes for the ECB, Bank of England and Bank of Japan. They're dumping money from helicopters to use Bernanke's former expression. Even so, it hasn't worked.

Don't expect China to rescue the world, Volker added. Its economy "slowed 50pc since its peak and is no longer able to support international growth."

China equities hit a three and a half year low. Its manufacturing diffusion index was down for the 11th straight month. In 2012 through August, its foreign direct investment slumped 3.4% year-over-year. On September 20, its Commerce Ministry said:

"In general, external demand for China's exports will probably be even lower than in January-August since the global economy is continuing on a downward trend."

The bloom looks very much off its rose. It's just a matter of time until other large economies decline like China. A composite Eurozone manufacturing and service sector read fell to 45.9. It's the worst showing since June 2009.

Bloomberg reported Eurozone capital flight. In the 12 months ending July 31, 326 billion euros exited banks in Spain, Greece, Portugal and Ireland. They moved mostly to lenders in Germany, France, and five other core European countries.

At the same time, French manufacturing was hit hard. Its PMI diffusion index sunk to 42.6. Japan reported August exports down 5.8% year-over-year.

Dallas Fed President Richard Fisher said all QE III will do is keep inflation expectations elevated while doing little or nothing to create growth and jobs.


QE Shell Game

[brocktonblockbust]

that's correct, I used that article on some of the detailed financial numbers like the Fed's reserves and the actual dollars used to bail out banks, etc. But I never even knew who Steve Lenderman was until yesterday. I have been championing these facts however since 2009. Nothing to do with Lenderman. Fiery Death Spiral seems to be something you've latched onto, like Lyle in the past latching onto "reptilian overlords". Simply using it repeatedly does not add any credence to your points. Fiery Death is not how I would describe what is coming. Give it up. There will be no fire, more like ICE, as in, everything will be frozen, figuratively of course, I must add, or you will then go off on Ice Age Glacier Attack or some other melodramatic sarcasm which does nothing more than make you look like a name-caller and wise-ass. I bet whoever told you "Fiery Death Spiral" (I have never heard of the term personally) really pricked you deeply or you wouldnt be saying it every time you need adjectives. Jesus Lang are you afraid of fire or something?

Its all coming down Lang, where did the money come from you ask? Oh please Lang, Helicopter Ben was printing it like there was no tomorrow. WHERE, indeed, Laing

[Kirkland Laing]

that's correct, I used that article on some of the detailed financial numbers like the Fed's reserves and the actual dollars used to bail out banks, etc. But I never even knew who Steve Lenderman was until yesterday. I have been championing these facts however since 2009. Nothing to do with Lenderman. Fiery Death Spiral seems to be something you've latched onto, like Lyle in the past latching onto "reptilian overlords". Simply using it repeatedly does not add any credence to your points. Fiery Death is not how I would describe what is coming. Give it up. There will be no fire, more like ICE, as in, everything will be frozen, figuratively of course, I must add, or you will then go off on Ice Age Glacier Attack or some other melodramatic sarcasm which does nothing more than make you look like a name-caller and wise-ass. I bet whoever told you "Fiery Death Spiral" (I have never heard of the term personally) really pricked you deeply or you wouldnt be saying it every time you need adjectives. Jesus Lang are you afraid of fire or something?

Its all coming down Lang, where did the money come from you ask? Oh please Lang, Helicopter Ben was printing it like there was no tomorrow. WHERE, indeed, Laing

[brocktonblockbust]

that's correct, I used that article on some of the detailed financial numbers like the Fed's reserves and the actual dollars used to bail out banks, etc. But I never even knew who Steve Lenderman was until yesterday. I have been championing these facts however since 2009. Nothing to do with Lenderman. Fiery Death Spiral seems to be something you've latched onto, like Lyle in the past latching onto "reptilian overlords". Simply using it repeatedly does not add any credence to your points. Fiery Death is not how I would describe what is coming. Give it up. There will be no fire, more like ICE, as in, everything will be frozen, figuratively of course, I must add, or you will then go off on Ice Age Glacier Attack or some other melodramatic sarcasm which does nothing more than make you look like a name-caller and wise-ass. I bet whoever told you "Fiery Death Spiral" (I have never heard of the term personally) really pricked you deeply or you wouldnt be saying it every time you need adjectives. Jesus Lang are you afraid of fire or something?

Its all coming down Lang, where did the money come from you ask? Oh please Lang, Helicopter Ben was printing it like there was no tomorrow. WHERE, indeed, Laing

and the fat bald chap on Sky

[Gandalf]

It is commonsense to assume that rampant money printing will have eventual consequences. Heck, even the Nazi's decided to try and flood Britain with fake pounds as a weapon of war against the British. It is a common monetarist observation to assume as much and numerous examples inform such an observation.

I find it silly that people are pouting about knowing people educated in economics, asking for specific dates about impending collapse and so forth. Economics is a shill subject full of hucksters and the ones that adhere correctly typically inform US economic policy. It is a charlatans game.

[brocktonblockbust]

It is commonsense to assume that rampant money printing will have eventual consequences. Heck, even the Nazi's decided to try and flood Britain with fake pounds as a weapon of war against the British. It is a common monetarist observation to assume as much and numerous examples inform such an observation.

I find it silly that people are pouting about knowing people educated in economics, asking for specific dates about impending collapse and so forth. Economics is a shill subject full of hucksters and the ones that adhere correctly typically inform US economic policy. It is a charlatans game.

NAIL ON THE HEAD AND kIRKLAND LANG IS A CHARLATAN.

[Kirkland Laing]

It is commonsense to assume that rampant money printing will have eventual consequences.

I find it silly that people are pouting about knowing people educated in economics, asking for specific dates about impending collapse and so forth. Economics is a shill subject full of hucksters and the ones that adhere correctly typically inform US economic policy. It is a charlatans game.

1. Why is it common sense?

2. And why is it silly to ask for specific dates? The monetary base tripled overnight five years ago and inflation is at the lowest ever level right now. How can there be no inflation in five years with three times the money?