At what point has boxing 'moved on' from it's past champions

[justaguy]

I might agree that training techniques have not changed much and therefore there isn't a great advancement - however, I will disagree that nutrition hasn't changed much and that supplements are not available that are legal and can be taken that make fighters better.

I will agree that a champion is a champion, if a real champion. Perhaps it's the alphabet soup that has me more questioning whether certain paper champions would have competed with the best... but if you compare the best of one era to the best of another area, I think that you more can go with the strengths and weaknesses of the fighter as compared to other factors... it's the middle of the pack that is hard for me to compare - the second tier guys as opposed to the greats.

The one exception to that would be heavyweight. These guys are bigger than the previous era's heavyweights. It would have been difficult for the former heavyweight champions to imagine the size and quickness of today's heavyweights - as well as to imagine their lack of technical skills and conditioning. Rocky IV somewhat characterized what that might look like, when you look at Drago's sheer size and power versus a smaller, quicker Apollo Creed. Not a thudder like Rocky (Tua/Tyson) who would bang no matter what... but a quick champ (Byrd) is pretty well lost against that size of a champ despite good technical ability.

[Cormega]

I might agree that training techniques have not changed much and therefore there isn't a great advancement - however, I will disagree that nutrition hasn't changed much and that supplements are not available that are legal and can be taken that make fighters better.

I will agree that a champion is a champion, if a real champion. Perhaps it's the alphabet soup that has me more questioning whether certain paper champions would have competed with the best... but if you compare the best of one era to the best of another area, I think that you more can go with the strengths and weaknesses of the fighter as compared to other factors... it's the middle of the pack that is hard for me to compare - the second tier guys as opposed to the greats.

The one exception to that would be heavyweight. These guys are bigger than the previous era's heavyweights. It would have been difficult for the former heavyweight champions to imagine the size and quickness of today's heavyweights - as well as to imagine their lack of technical skills and conditioning. Rocky IV somewhat characterized what that might look like, when you look at Drago's sheer size and power versus a smaller, quicker Apollo Creed. Not a thudder like Rocky (Tua/Tyson) who would bang no matter what... but a quick champ (Byrd) is pretty well lost against that size of a champ despite good technical ability.

Legal supplements are basically just a bunch of bullshit in fancy packaging with outrageous claims written on it that the manufacturers are not even legally required to back up. If you think you can go into GNC and buy some shit that will make you a better fighter then you clearly don't know shit about boxing.

[justaguy]

I might agree that training techniques have not changed much and therefore there isn't a great advancement - however, I will disagree that nutrition hasn't changed much and that supplements are not available that are legal and can be taken that make fighters better.

I will agree that a champion is a champion, if a real champion. Perhaps it's the alphabet soup that has me more questioning whether certain paper champions would have competed with the best... but if you compare the best of one era to the best of another area, I think that you more can go with the strengths and weaknesses of the fighter as compared to other factors... it's the middle of the pack that is hard for me to compare - the second tier guys as opposed to the greats.

The one exception to that would be heavyweight. These guys are bigger than the previous era's heavyweights. It would have been difficult for the former heavyweight champions to imagine the size and quickness of today's heavyweights - as well as to imagine their lack of technical skills and conditioning. Rocky IV somewhat characterized what that might look like, when you look at Drago's sheer size and power versus a smaller, quicker Apollo Creed. Not a thudder like Rocky (Tua/Tyson) who would bang no matter what... but a quick champ (Byrd) is pretty well lost against that size of a champ despite good technical ability.

Legal supplements are basically just a bunch of bullshit in fancy packaging with outrageous claims written on it that the manufacturers are not even legally required to back up. If you think you can go into GNC and buy some shit that will make you a better fighter then you clearly don't know shit about boxing.

I didn't say that it would make you a better boxer... what I said was that it made fighters better - stronger - faster (cue the Million Dollar Man theme). Boxing skills are technical ability and of course you can't go into a store and buy that. You can, however, buy things that give you a slight advantage over people who are not taking what you are taking or who are taking things that don't work as well as what you are taking... a 5% gain at the elite level can make a huge difference.

And I will say this... if these things are just fancy packaging and they don't help with strength and speed, why are so many people taking them and so many nutritionists agreeing that they can give a small advantage? Now, can they make a weakling into a powerhouse? No... but they can enhance what one already has and assist in the training phase for recovery and muscle development. But I probably just don't know anything about boxing... let's go with that one.

[Cormega]

I might agree that training techniques have not changed much and therefore there isn't a great advancement - however, I will disagree that nutrition hasn't changed much and that supplements are not available that are legal and can be taken that make fighters better.

I will agree that a champion is a champion, if a real champion. Perhaps it's the alphabet soup that has me more questioning whether certain paper champions would have competed with the best... but if you compare the best of one era to the best of another area, I think that you more can go with the strengths and weaknesses of the fighter as compared to other factors... it's the middle of the pack that is hard for me to compare - the second tier guys as opposed to the greats.

The one exception to that would be heavyweight. These guys are bigger than the previous era's heavyweights. It would have been difficult for the former heavyweight champions to imagine the size and quickness of today's heavyweights - as well as to imagine their lack of technical skills and conditioning. Rocky IV somewhat characterized what that might look like, when you look at Drago's sheer size and power versus a smaller, quicker Apollo Creed. Not a thudder like Rocky (Tua/Tyson) who would bang no matter what... but a quick champ (Byrd) is pretty well lost against that size of a champ despite good technical ability.

Legal supplements are basically just a bunch of bullshit in fancy packaging with outrageous claims written on it that the manufacturers are not even legally required to back up. If you think you can go into GNC and buy some shit that will make you a better fighter then you clearly don't know shit about boxing.

I didn't say that it would make you a better boxer... what I said was that it made fighters better - stronger - faster (cue the Million Dollar Man theme). Boxing skills are technical ability and of course you can't go into a store and buy that. You can, however, buy things that give you a slight advantage over people who are not taking what you are taking or who are taking things that don't work as well as what you are taking... a 5% gain at the elite level can make a huge difference.

And I will say this... if these things are just fancy packaging and they don't help with strength and speed, why are so many people taking them and so many nutritionists agreeing that they can give a small advantage? Now, can they make a weakling into a powerhouse? No... but they can enhance what one already has and assist in the training phase for recovery and muscle development. But I probably just don't know anything about boxing... let's go with that one.

You can bet your ass that any of these supplements that really do anything for you have been banned for use in just about every pro sport in the world. Now, if we're talking about banned supplements then you may have a point, but legal supplements? Shit, andro is even banned and clinical studies have shown that it isn't worth a shit for performance enhancement.