A funny story about a bully gangster rapper named 40 Glocc from the streets of LA

[VictorCharlie]

I don't know you personally, you may well be an exception to the rule. That last sentence is an Einstein quote which holds very true in my opinion. There are numerous studies which indicate the psych profile of criminals and law enforcement or military types are virtually identical. In fact if you just swapped all the uses of gangster and military in your post, it would hold just as true. A gang is generally a conformist organization just like the military, and a lot of the same rules apply. Respect for "authority" is just a prevalent and important in a gang, and carries similar consequences. I see nothing you wrote which refutes this whatsoever. I do know that there are enough people who aren't attracted to the idea of holding rank over others or resorting to violence in the first place, although it's unlikely anyone does inherently

Well according to your quote anyone who has ambition to be in a position of leadership is of low morality. I guess every world and business leader are just really bad people. Sounds pretty silly. I'm not an exception to any rule. I can't say I've ever personally had a leader in or out of uniform that I would classify as of low morality. If you don't see how different an organization a criminal gang and a military unit are then I don' think you are being objective about the issue. Clearly you don't understand the "rules" in the military or you would see that they are not the same and don't apply equally to both military and gangs. This isn't about me needing to assert my authority it is about what a breakdown in discipline does to a unit, particularly in combat.

[p4pking]

Uh, no. A position of FORCE, means you physically intimidate somebody and are in a position to inflict bodily harm as part of the job description. Being powerful and having control over people by other means is different, for one thing it requires a brain. I do believe that many businessmen and politicians are utter sociopaths of a different type and no more admirable mind you.

For many kids growing up in a certain environment, joining a gang is no different than slightly more privileged kids joining the military. They do so for exactly the same reasons, and hope for the same things out of it more or less, that was my point. Obviously neither of us are objective about it though

[Jerry Rice]

Uh, no. A position of FORCE, means you physically intimidate somebody and are in a position to inflict bodily harm as part of the job description. Being powerful and having control over people by other means is different, for one thing it requires a brain. I do believe that many businessmen and politicians are utter sociopaths of a different type and no more admirable mind you.

For many kids growing up in a certain environment, joining a gang is no different than slightly more privileged kids joining the military. They do so for exactly the same reasons, and hope for the same things out of it more or less, that was my point. Obviously neither of us are objective about it though

It's time for life lessons with p4pking

[VictorCharlie]

Don't go moving the goal posts now. Any position of authority is backed by some level of force whether it be political, financial, physical etc.

position of FORCE, means you physically intimidate somebody and are in a
position to inflict bodily harm as part of the job description

The only job description that sounds like is a professional fighter. It damn sure doesn't describe the role of a officer or noncommissioned officer in the US Army.

Being powerful and having control over people by other means is different,
for one thing it requires a brain.

So you don't think people that are law enforcement or in the military (your examples) attained their positions through hard work, intellect and ability or as you put it, have a brain?

For many kids growing up in a certain environment, joining a gang is no
different than slightly more privileged kids joining the military. They do so
for exactly the same reasons

Why do you think privileged kids join the military? Couldn't really be farther from the truth. Most Soldiers come from lower to middle class families. Most join the military to get money for school and/or job training. Some do it simply to get out of small town USA. I don't think that is a big part of the Bloods and Crips recruitment pitch. You make a lot of sweeping generalizations about people and things you don't seem to know much about.

[Jerry Rice]

Why do you think privileged kids join the military? Couldn't really be farther from the truth. Most Soldiers come from lower to middle class families. Most join the military to get money for school and/or job training. Some do it simply to get out of small town USA. I don't think that is a big part of the Bloods and Crips recruitment pitch. You make a lot of sweeping generalizations about people and things you don't seem to know much about.[/QUOTE]


He seems to be the type that doesn't know much about anything.

[p4pking]

Yes thanks for your insight here, Jerry Rice.

VC, A soldier or police officer is a position of force. A lawyer or CEO is not, although they hold much more legitimate influence and control over others. It's not moving the goal posts, I meant force in a physical sense and you're taking it to mean any kind of authority. I'm not going Chomsky or anything here.

When I said SLIGHTLY MORE PRIVILEGED, I meant as opposed to kids who grow up in ghettos without families etc and are far more likely to join gangs. I'm well aware that it's still lower class people who join the military.

I don't believe most soldiers or police officers have obtained their position through intellect, no. If you want to take having a brain as literally as my other points go ahead, they have the kinetic intelligence to salute and fire a weapon.

[VictorCharlie]

P4P, you clearly don't understand the military if you think that our leadership positions are based on a threat of physical violence or force. Why do you think a CEO has more legitamate authority than say a commanding officer? I'm not a LEO so I can't speak for them but leading Soldiers in combat takes a tremendous set of skills and attributes, particularly in our current assymetric conflicts. Feel free to carry on your prejudices but you don't know what you are talking about. Nothing like a good dose of Saddo bigotry to push through a 24 hour shift.

[p4pking]

I didn't say anything about leadership positions though, except to make the difference between force and influence or authority clearer. Now that is moving the goal posts.Obviously at the highest echelon military leaders will have great intellect and years of very specific education and training, but that's hardly required to enlist for basic training now is it. Is being a common soldier not a position based on the threat of force