Are you for or against intervening in Syria?

[Nameless]

I say no intervention till there is a solid plan made first, no friggin blind strikes like in Iraq where the Bush&Cheeney did show that they have been the worst clueless tandem of all time. We don't want to repeat a carnage with no "and then what" kind of plan.

[IamInuit]

Somebody has to stop this history repeating itself gig. Its like a real life episode of the Twilight Zone.

Unless someone can point out what the objective is beyond some kind of oddball retribution then let nature take its course. The fact that inspectors cant even get in to see the evidence to make a finding ought to tell you something.

[Andre]

Funny when you read this: the biggest question it brings to mind is 'IS America the God of Israel?

At the very end of this age all nations will be gathered against Israel for war. But despite sophisticated weapons, they will be defeated by the God of Israel.





ISRAEL, FUCK YEAH!

[Gandalf]

Somebody has to stop this history repeating itself gig. Its like a real life episode of the Twilight Zone.

Unless someone can point out what the objective is beyond some kind of oddball retribution then let nature take its course. The fact that inspectors cant even get in to see the evidence to make a finding ought to tell you something.

Precisely. What happens next? The media is slanting it as though America mustn't show weakness to Iran, but surely bombing Syria for 3 days will kill many more than those killed in this chemical attack. An attack which still hasn't been proven the responsibility of Assad and at the end of the day, the US media needs to quit harping on about Iran.They should look out for their own wayward Captain with his drones, Guantanamo, spying, etc first.

America is yet again seeking to extend its debt window and yet once again Captain America is wading in using taxpayer money to fund the very people they have been spending billions of dollars fighting against. What an absolute cluster bomb, sorry I mean clusterfuck. Obama doesn't care about his own consitution, so when he waffles on about international law and having to be careful, it makes me cringe. Bush and Cheney are walking free and Obama has the temerity to talk about international law. He's a joker, that one.

[brocktonblockbust]

I can see how people in England and America are more free than people in SYria or people in Iraq under Saddam. Nobody is disputing that. I would of course anyday rather be in America than Syria or Iraq, nobody I hope is disputing that either. So I can see the logic, though well, well stretched to unidentifiable proportions, that "Its better to have the US/UK system of governance imposed over the whole world rather than the Assad or the Saddam systems."

But that is just pure logic, like a Darwinian anthem, that "we may as well bully our way around like a world policeman because we would rather that all the world is like the US/UK".

It has to be allowed to happen naturally, if it happens at ALL, as the 13 colonies of King George naturally and in due course took the decisions to resist tyranny by themselves when the time was right, or ripe.

Nobody intervened on behalf of the 13 colonies, they fought it out tooth and nail against the Red Coats and won. So the Syrian rebels must do the same thing.

The US/UK maniacs are jumping in all around the world intervening and nation building and it is wrong. And it causes blow-back. It it will continue to cause blow-back. And all the NSA Homeland Security Obama Drones of Destruction and NTSA gropings at airports and iris scans and RFID chips and CCTVs and satellite images WILL NOT STOP THE BLOW-BACK, as it is a natural reaction to a foreign force meddling in your business.

[Dia bando]

I can see how people in England and America are more free than people in SYria or people in Iraq under Saddam. Nobody is disputing that. I would of course anyday rather be in America than Syria or Iraq, nobody I hope is disputing that either. So I can see the logic, though well, well stretched to unidentifiable proportions, that "Its better to have the US/UK system of governance imposed over the whole world rather than the Assad or the Saddam systems."

But that is just pure logic, like a Darwinian anthem, that "we may as well bully our way around like a world policeman because we would rather that all the world is like the US/UK".

It has to be allowed to happen naturally, if it happens at ALL, as the 13 colonies of King George naturally and in due course took the decisions to resist tyranny by themselves when the time was right, or ripe.

Nobody intervened on behalf of the 13 colonies, they fought it out tooth and nail against the Red Coats and won. So the Syrian rebels must do the same thing.

The US/UK maniacs are jumping in all around the world intervening and nation building and it is wrong. And it causes blow-back. It it will continue to cause blow-back. And all the NSA Homeland Security Obama Drones of Destruction and NTSA gropings at airports and iris scans and RFID chips and CCTVs and satellite images WILL NOT STOP THE BLOW-BACK, as it is a natural reaction to a foreign force meddling in your business.

I have a Syrian friend, his cousins son and wife were dragged into the street and both executed,
shot in the head dreadful, he was devastated he told me he was very worried about the rest of
his family.! Trouble is our Western way's are totally unsuitable, for the Middle East we may think
we are the dogs bollocks, we are in our own back yard, but not so in others .!
Remember our life style suits us, but it may not suit others and we should not force our ways onto
others, as the song goes, White man came across the sea he brought us, pain and misery never a true
word.

[Andre]

I can see how people in England and America are more free than people in SYria or people in Iraq under Saddam. Nobody is disputing that. I would of course anyday rather be in America than Syria or Iraq, nobody I hope is disputing that either. So I can see the logic, though well, well stretched to unidentifiable proportions, that "Its better to have the US/UK system of governance imposed over the whole world rather than the Assad or the Saddam systems."

But that is just pure logic, like a Darwinian anthem, that "we may as well bully our way around like a world policeman because we would rather that all the world is like the US/UK".

It has to be allowed to happen naturally, if it happens at ALL, as the 13 colonies of King George naturally and in due course took the decisions to resist tyranny by themselves when the time was right, or ripe.

Nobody intervened on behalf of the 13 colonies, they fought it out tooth and nail against the Red Coats and won. So the Syrian rebels must do the same thing.

The US/UK maniacs are jumping in all around the world intervening and nation building and it is wrong. And it causes blow-back. It it will continue to cause blow-back. And all the NSA Homeland Security Obama Drones of Destruction and NTSA gropings at airports and iris scans and RFID chips and CCTVs and satellite images WILL NOT STOP THE BLOW-BACK, as it is a natural reaction to a foreign force meddling in your business.

I have a Syrian friend, his cousins son and wife were dragged into the street and both executed,
shot in the head dreadful, he was devastated he told me he was very worried about the rest of
his family.! Trouble is our Western way's are totally unsuitable, for the Middle East we may think
we are the dogs bollocks, we are in our own back yard, but not so in others .!
Remember our life style suits us, but it may not suit others and we should not force our ways onto
others, as the song goes, White man came across the sea he brought us, pain and misery never a true
word.

How true,but sadly we watch this area and its surrounding countries escalate into it again and again, boarders will be breached, we will side with our old favorites and it'll be on again. These fucking idiots that run these sand holes can never live in peace they are unforgiving for centuries and the idiots dont learn a thing they teach new vengeance to their offspring. I wish we had just let the whole middle east be and cease any dealings with any of them when we could of. Australia the US, New Zealand, Canada other smaller neutral countries that wanted to join would do so fast, even ones like Chili etc. We could link armies and commerce and go total self sufficient with protection facing every way over every ocean. We still have all the untapped resources including gas and oil reserves that we need,all the lands and climates covered to grow whatever we require, these lot would go bankrupt in no time if we pulled the pin on our dealings with them.But greed keeps our rulers in there cause they have already committed us into so many financial and sub political forms of control there.
Its madness brewing on a grand scale.

[Beanz]

I can see how people in England and America are more free than people in SYria or people in Iraq under Saddam. Nobody is disputing that. I would of course anyday rather be in America than Syria or Iraq, nobody I hope is disputing that either. So I can see the logic, though well, well stretched to unidentifiable proportions, that "Its better to have the US/UK system of governance imposed over the whole world rather than the Assad or the Saddam systems."

But that is just pure logic, like a Darwinian anthem, that "we may as well bully our way around like a world policeman because we would rather that all the world is like the US/UK".

It has to be allowed to happen naturally, if it happens at ALL, as the 13 colonies of King George naturally and in due course took the decisions to resist tyranny by themselves when the time was right, or ripe.

Nobody intervened on behalf of the 13 colonies, they fought it out tooth and nail against the Red Coats and won. So the Syrian rebels must do the same thing.

The US/UK maniacs are jumping in all around the world intervening and nation building and it is wrong. And it causes blow-back. It it will continue to cause blow-back. And all the NSA Homeland Security Obama Drones of Destruction and NTSA gropings at airports and iris scans and RFID chips and CCTVs and satellite images WILL NOT STOP THE BLOW-BACK, as it is a natural reaction to a foreign force meddling in your business.

You miss my point. Apart from the fact the French. the Spanish and the Dutch helped provide money for munitions against the British ( who many Native Americans sided with Miles ) I am not, unlike the simplistic logic that Gandalf uses to make a political point, suggesting we support the rebels. Not closing our eyes when people use chemical weapons is not an excuse for attacking civilians. It is also no good pretending that it does not matter what people do as long as it is not in my garden. Just as an eye for an eye makes the world go blind all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to avert their eyes. It is very complicated and not helped by the fact that arch enemies like Lyle( @El Kabong ) and Kirkland ( @Kirkland Laing ), Miles ( @Gandalf )and nearly everyone else seems to think that inaction is the best option. Even somebody like @Andre who professes like Miles to not see anything special about the country that he is living or was born in, is not acting like a true Internationalist if a countries border is suddenly important as an excuse not to act when it is in the power of others to do so. It is not surprising when countries like China and Russia do nothing but when even moderate European countries like Germany and France do nothing to help those who are oppressed they are in dereliction of their positions as so called bastions of democracy. It is easy to look after your own looking out for those with which you have much less in common is much more commendable and takes true courage and love.

They need to find out the individuals and commanders responsible and try them in a court of law. If that is impossible than you send in the people who are capable to take them swiftly out. That should not be the job of Britain and America but the UN and the many other countries that make it up have repeatedly not stepped up to the mark. You can not always wait for natural justice to occur. How many Jews were needlessly exterminated by nations inaction? How many could have been saved in Rowanda? Cambodia? I don't have any great solution but I refuse to take the position of least resistance. I am not black but I have fought against racists and facists here and in Italy. I am not a miner, a nurse or a teacher but I have supported their cause. I don't have Cancer or have not suffered a stroke but I have raised awareness and money for those that do. Solidarity is not defined by national borders, class or racial divides and nor should compassion or a desire for justice.

[Gandalf]

I don't have time to post much as I have to go somewhere, but needless to say, I am glad that in the UK at least, Labour is putting up some resistance at last.

Back from the brink: David Cameron forced to retreat over Syria - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

Greenbeanz, you seem to think that a lot of us don't care or are inhumane. We are not, we just don't see how bombing the shit out of a place for several days in a display of 'strength' helps things in Syria. I am all for trying to use the UN and we should definitely allow inspectors to reach their own conclusions first. Britain and America wanted to rush in and not allow for adequate checks and that would have been outrageous. They have blamed a side, but as has been seen before we either get it wrong or else lie. America is the last country to be blaming others over WMD or chemical weapons.

[Andre]

I can see how people in England and America are more free than people in SYria or people in Iraq under Saddam. Nobody is disputing that. I would of course anyday rather be in America than Syria or Iraq, nobody I hope is disputing that either. So I can see the logic, though well, well stretched to unidentifiable proportions, that "Its better to have the US/UK system of governance imposed over the whole world rather than the Assad or the Saddam systems."

But that is just pure logic, like a Darwinian anthem, that "we may as well bully our way around like a world policeman because we would rather that all the world is like the US/UK".

It has to be allowed to happen naturally, if it happens at ALL, as the 13 colonies of King George naturally and in due course took the decisions to resist tyranny by themselves when the time was right, or ripe.

Nobody intervened on behalf of the 13 colonies, they fought it out tooth and nail against the Red Coats and won. So the Syrian rebels must do the same thing.

The US/UK maniacs are jumping in all around the world intervening and nation building and it is wrong. And it causes blow-back. It it will continue to cause blow-back. And all the NSA Homeland Security Obama Drones of Destruction and NTSA gropings at airports and iris scans and RFID chips and CCTVs and satellite images WILL NOT STOP THE BLOW-BACK, as it is a natural reaction to a foreign force meddling in your business.

You miss my point. Apart from the fact the French. the Spanish and the Dutch helped provide money for munitions against the British ( who many Native Americans sided with Miles ) I am not, unlike the simplistic logic that Gandalf uses to make a political point, suggesting we support the rebels. Not closing our eyes when people use chemical weapons is not an excuse for attacking civilians. It is also no good pretending that it does not matter what people do as long as it is not in my garden. Just as an eye for an eye makes the world go blind all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to avert their eyes. It is very complicated and not helped by the fact that arch enemies like Lyle( @El Kabong ) and Kirkland ( @Kirkland Laing ), Miles ( @Gandalf )and nearly everyone else seems to think that inaction is the best option. Even somebody like @Andre who professes like Miles to not see anything special about the country that he is living or was born in, is not acting like a true Internationalist if a countries border is suddenly important as an excuse not to act when it is in the power of others to do so. It is not surprising when countries like China and Russia do nothing but when even moderate European countries like Germany and France do nothing to help those who are oppressed they are in dereliction of their positions as so called bastions of democracy. It is easy to look after your own looking out for those with which you have much less in common is much more commendable and takes true courage and love.

They need to find out the individuals and commanders responsible and try them in a court of law. If that is impossible than you send in the people who are capable to take them swiftly out. That should not be the job of Britain and America but the UN and the many other countries that make it up have repeatedly not stepped up to the mark. You can not always wait for natural justice to occur. How many Jews were needlessly exterminated by nations inaction? How many could have been saved in Rowanda? Cambodia? I don't have any great solution but I refuse to take the position of least resistance. I am not black but I have fought against racists and facists here and in Italy. I am not a miner, a nurse or a teacher but I have supported their cause. I don't have Cancer or have not suffered a stroke but I have raised awareness and money for those that do. Solidarity is not defined by national borders, class or racial divides and nor should compassion or a desire for justice.

I would normally be with you,but i honestly think if we go in again it will be an excuse for Muslim extremists to join the world over to pull off a few big strikes and start what we wont be able to stop for many years, the horror and billions that will suffer may not be worth it.

Like you say a hit squad in and out maybe the answer but you wouldnt want to wear colors it would have to be covert and if caught they die silent. But to walk on in and drop a flag and park no way,Im not for that.

I think every neighboring enemy we have ever made in that region and all the ones that now live in secret amongst us, will use it for an excuse for the next holy war. You know 'the demon is on holy ground' if you are for Allah and the prophet you must arm yourself and fight the devil in your homeland or here blah blah blah. You know you want it!

I also think if we do get involved and cant withdraw you may find Nth Korea and China sitting there like vultures ready for us all to weaken and move in on our homelands while we are all off fighting others fights.

I smell a big steaming nuked rat race in that exact arena one day.

[IamInuit]

Situational ethics.

I wonder, if it was China that did this or accused of doing so?

How about North Korea? A modern day killing fields. Probably responsible for more murders then Pol Pot.