Tyson VS Holyfield in 91

[Spicoli]

Is that your default setting when it comes to a Tyson-Holyfield match?

[ross]

What?

[Master]

I maintain that Tyson would have won the first fight because Tyson still had a bit in the tank. His technique was not as good but his punch resistance and conditioning was better than when he came out of jail.

I think Tyson would have won and it could have easily been a KO1 but more than likely it would have been a classic war with Tyson coming out on top. Holyfield was smaller and lighter and did not bulk up until the second fight with Bowe. This smaller version was rattled by Cooper and Foreman and was vulnerable.

However I do think that there would have been a demand for a rematch and he would have won that and the final decider in this alternative dimension.

[bradlee180]

The trouble here is they fought in the same era, but didn't peak at the same time.
Tyson won a Title in 1986, and his peak was 1988, particularly against the undefeated lineal Champ Michael Spinks.
Holyfield, though the Cruiserweight Champ, only went to Heavyweight in mid-1988.

In the 1989 Bruno fight, I think Tyson was already showing a few problems, maybe not showing as much focus and dedication, maybe not training as hard. He won the fight, but he wasn't as awesome.

In 1989, Holyfield took out a good contender in Alex Stewart as he made his way up the ladder and developed into a better fighter.

In early 1990, Tyson was KO'd by Douglas.
In late 1990, Holyfield KO'd Douglas.

The big showdown was scheduled for Nov 8, 1991.
There were posters hyping it in the magazines, but Tyson got arrested for rape and later went to jail instead.

Tyson had been back on-track after the Douglas loss though, at least in the ring.
Leading up to Nov 1991, Tyson had KO'd Tillman, Alex Stewart, and did the 2 fights with Razor Ruddock. Fighters were no longer scared stiff of him because they had seen him getting knocked out, but it was clear he was still an elite fighter.
In contrast to Tyson's 4 fights resulting in 3 KOs, Holyfield had only fought once, and it was a very tough decision win over 42 year old Big George Foreman.

After the Holyfield/Tyson Nov 8, 1991 fight was scrapped, the promoter decided to try to make a little money anyway, so Holy's defense was rescheduled for 15 days later with a last-minute opponent. Old trial horse, Smokin' Bert Cooper, who fought a lot like Mike Tyson, took the fight though he was just coming off a cocaine-fueled, month-long bender, and he still almost knocked over Holyfield.

I think at that period in Nov 1991, if the fight had come off, I think Tyson would've been too much for Holyfield. And that's even with Holyfield's "supplements" that built his 188 lb body up to 208
.

[ross]

The only reason they fought in the same era is that EVERYONE wanted to see the Mike Tyson that made sense of a division again. In fact some enjoyed just watching him knock out anyone, even if it wasnt a meaningfull fight.

Who did Mike beat after prison? I think one of his best wins was against Golota (after prison). He just wasnt the same fighter that his opponents struggled to land on or defend every punch in a lightening 5 punch combination.

He stood static in front of opponents and threw one shot at a time and not because he thought it was better to fight that way but hed forgotton what made him great and no one he was prepaired to have as his trainer could teach or remind him of it.

[Master]

I still have a poster for the 1991 clash.

[bradlee180]

I still have a poster for the 1991 clash.

No poster here, but I have an old mag, Bert Randolph Sugar's Boxing Illustrated.

It says the Champ Holyfield was guaranteed 30 million and Tyson 15 million, with both getting a percentage of ppv tv receipts. The promoters were anticipating grossing 100 million dollars in Nov 1991. Tyson was an 11-5 favorite at the time of publication, and the Ruddock rematch in June 1991 had already happened.


Hey Master, we all know Buster did have some talent but psychologically, he ran hot-and-cold, sometimes motivated, sometimes not giving a $#!t.
Do you think Buster could have got up from the Holyfield knockdown?
Do you think Buster just decided to stay down knowing he had a 24 million dollar payday win or lose?

[Mr140]

I think Holyfeild had Tyson number and he actual won a lot of his big fights and was not crushing cans a lot of his career. I laugh when people say Tyson was not prime because neither was Holyfiled. I mean if i had to call the last prime version i say it was Bowie rematch he won after that Holyfeild had some really bad problems health wise after. Holyfeild was just more solid on his fundamentals then Tyson was so he pretty much outclassed him even though he was older and in worst way when it came to his health.

[ross]

Holyfield took steroids to get to the top and stay there and had been active.

[bradlee180]

I think Holyfeild had Tyson number and he actual won a lot of his big fights and was not crushing cans a lot of his career. I laugh when people say Tyson was not prime because neither was Holyfiled. I mean if i had to call the last prime version i say it was Bowie rematch he won after that Holyfeild had some really bad problems health wise after. Holyfeild was just more solid on his fundamentals then Tyson was so he pretty much outclassed him even though he was older and in worst way when it came to his health.

I don't think Holyfield had better fundamentals than Tyson.
Holyfield was more versatile. For example Tyson couldn't fight going backwards, Holy could.
Holyfield had many Great attributes, bur he had some shortcomings:
I think Holyfield fought off-balance a lot.
He didn't move his head enough; that's why he got hit so cleanly by so many fighters; he'd just stand there. His world-class chin, one of the best in Boxing, is what kept him in there many times.
He didn't have Heavyweight power, and part of that was all that nonsensical bouncing around excuse-for-footwork he'd do. When you bounce like that, your feet aren't planted, and you lose power.
He also hardly ever gets called for all the rule-breaking he did with his chronic head-butting and elbows.
Tyson, likewise had many Great attributes and some shortcomings, but he had excellent fundamentals for the style he utilized as a 5'11" guy consistently fighting 6'4" guys.

[Master]

I still have a poster for the 1991 clash.

No poster here, but I have an old mag, Bert Randolph Sugar's Boxing Illustrated.

It says the Champ Holyfield was guaranteed 30 million and Tyson 15 million, with both getting a percentage of ppv tv receipts. The promoters were anticipating grossing 100 million dollars in Nov 1991. Tyson was an 11-5 favorite at the time of publication, and the Ruddock rematch in June 1991 had already happened.


Hey Master, we all know Buster did have some talent but psychologically, he ran hot-and-cold, sometimes motivated, sometimes not giving a $#!t.
Do you think Buster could have got up from the Holyfield knockdown?
Do you think Buster just decided to stay down knowing he had a 24 million dollar payday win or lose?

Definitely Buster could have gotten up and he decided to stay down and collect the cheque without minimal damage. He was going to lose anyway he was not motivated as he was against Tyson. Now that version would have never have gone down in the first place and may have won.

[bradlee180]

It was good that the Holyfield/Tyson fight finally happened in 1996, and it is a classic fight, but we can only dream what would have happened if the fight had happened 5 years earlier...

[Master]

It was good that the Holyfield/Tyson fight finally happened in 1996, and it is a classic fight, but we can only dream what would have happened if the fight had happened 5 years earlier...

Yes the fight was under rated, Tyson nearly knocked him out with the first punch! After 5 rounds Tyson was shot and started trying to get out of the fight. When that was not going to happen he took his beating and went out on his shield.