Are you for or against intervening in Syria?

[Beanz]

Miles you are a cowardly intellectual snob. Self righteous indignation is all well and good when you are sat behind your keyboard but you can not judge a man by ignoring the good he has done and then expect equivalent credit for doing fuck all yourself. Even the most ardent pacifist would not pretend that a career in the military is not a real job.

[VictorCharlie]

Its cool. I was a teacher before I got a real job running a bar but then my piss poor American education led me along with my genetically predisposed American past time of rape, pillage and genocide to being in the military. If only I could be as enlightened and informed as Miles.

[Gandalf]

I have never gone into what are no more than the modern day equivalent of the crusades and that isn't cowardly in the slightest. Cowardly is signing up to do things that are wrong and making a living from it. A lot of people have been killed in overseas countries by US troops. Vietnam was supposedly over 2 million and granted many had no choice as they were forced to do it, but even then one should resist and go to prison instead. In these modern wars it is people who are in the military as a career choice. I don't see the point in skirting around the issue and not telling the truth. It isn't a noble and decent thing to sign up for the US military with all that it involves. It means selling out morally.

I don't see the need to defend my work as it is peaceful and there is no destruction or harm involved. If my conditions deteriorate then I will leave which is something I may well do come the end of the year, but it will have nothing to do with war crimes, murder, torture, or any of the other things that are synonymous with the US military. I have always been involved in work that doesn't harm and most would say the same. However, there are terrible corporations and one should morally not be involved with them too. Walmart is an obvious case in point. The NSA now is too on the suck list. In saying that there is no more terrible job than to be working in the military of the worlds leading sponsor of international terrorism.

You are supposed to mouse around and never point out the obvious and I find it amusing that I am painted as the big bad devil for pointing out the white elephant in the room. The US military sucks and anyone who signs up to become a trained killer is not like ordinary people who don't pick up guns, invade countries, and kill. It is an abberration and should be described as such and especially when it concerns the US military of the last decade. It is a monstrosity.

Having said that VC seems alright. However, reconciling the job is something I have never been able to do. I don't understand why anybody would train to kill other people. I'm not cowardly for thinking that way as I imagine many probably think the same way. Everybody likes to hammer teaching which is a benign and positive job, but you say anything about the values of people who sign up for the military as a safe job and you are satan. It just seems a bit absurd.

[Gandalf]

Anyway, I am sorry if I have offended you VC. This topic always seems to come up again and again. You seem like a decent sort, but then I contrast that with the job and I have trouble reconciling it. It boggles my mind why anyone would sell their labour to a military. In saying that people sell out all the time from CEO's who do bugger all, to pricks in the NSA, to private contractors who are essentially mercenaries etc etc. No hard feelings, though I am sure 3 month later when Syria is escalating I will be at it again!

Why couldn't you have just remained a steady teacher? I like teachers, it's a relatively honest sport. Mind you, I don't hear good things about teaching in the states. Seems like paperwork hell and little thanks, plus American kids, and budgets being stripped state to state.

[VictorCharlie]

No worries man. We've been doing this long enough I don't get too worked up about it. I liked teaching but I saw an opportunity to make better money in the booze business and then I just wanted more of a challenge in my life. The military provided that challenge. Being in a leadership position in the military is a lot like being a teacher. Something to consider Miles is that most people in the military will never spend one minute of their career hunting armed men. Their job has nothing to do with killing and more than likely they will never pull a trigger in anger. Frankly at close to 36 and with over a decade in uniform my days of kicking doors down are close to an end.

[walrus]

how do you define a democratic country as a rogue nation.

[IamInuit]

Clean up your own country. You have 20 thousand gun deaths a year while whining about some amendment written in ancient times and are a living breathing footprint for Einsteins definition of insanity. 40 million homeless.That is more then my country's population. Tell your clerics in political robes to quit saying you are exceptional. You are a failing State like Rome. Shit happens. Get your face out of other peoples business. Rake your own lawn.

[Gandalf]

how do you define a democratic country as a rogue nation.

Firstly, I don't think anybody takes seriously the notion of America as a democratic nation. Sure, it has a voting system and you can vote every half decade, but to pretend that it is democratic is silly. It has the illusion of democracy, but fewer and fewer buy into the notion that politicians (aside from an obvious few) are anything more than corrupt careerists who are bought and paid for by corporations. You only have to look at the schism between what people want in polls and contrast that with the system that exists. What ordinary Americans want is largely ignored, a single payer health care system is an obvious case in point.

Secondly, the rogue elements are obvious domestically with mass surveillance of the population (Internet and phones), bailing out corrupt institutions, TSA thugs etc. Then of course you have overseas terrorism committed using US taxpayer money which is the real crime as tens of thousands die yearly because of US foreign policy. Those numbers include people killed in countries that the US sponsors, through nations invaded (Iraq recently saw 800 killed in a month and the US is clearly why Iraq is in a mess), through drone attacks on Pakistan. The list can go on, and then of course we have torture, detention without trial.

The latest is that America exchanges information about US citizens with Israel. Now what jurisdiction Israel has over America is beyond me. If that isn't a rogue state, then I am clearly living in the world of Winston Smith.