Kelly Pavlik RULED

[armin]

Kelly proved that he wasn't able to deal with adversity and was mentally weak when pushed, he would crumble which is a shame

I don't think mentally weak is accurate, he never quit that takes a certain fortitude...he did lack the ability to adapt inside the ring and obviously his inner demons outside the ring are proving/proved to much to overcome to have a long career.

[p4pking]

I think he lacked the physical tools to adapt to certain styles, he wasn't remotely "weak" or anything like that. He was a great accumulative puncher when he got into a rhythm, but since he wasn't nearly as fast or slick as some he sort of died by the same sword once he was getting beat to the punch. Perhaps he wasn't always in top condition, and he didn't have a rock solid chin either, but there was never a point in a fight where he stopped trying to win imo.

[El Kabong]

Taylor beat him in the rematch, FACT

[Rantcatrat]

Taylor beat him in the rematch, FACT

At both guy's best weight, Taylor was brutally knocked out in a big upset. Fact.

[Nameless]

He had a good potential and a great attitude at the start. Then he collapsed mentally and went on vacations with his old demons only to come back with the biggest collection of ugly tattoos ever. Since then, he's wondering like a lost soul in a no man's land.

[X]

I'm sorry to hear about his problems.

However, as a fighter - while he had a decent Rocky style backstory - he was a crude fighter, strong and willing, good rhythm pressure box/puncher. Tough and committed.

He was not a skilled boxer, nor a chilling one shot hitter and he was easy to hit. That's why his fights were fun.

If he was fighting in another good decade, he would be a tough 'gatekeeper' who people would have had to beat on their way to a title shot against the champ.

A Robbie Sims, Yvonne Durrell, Gerry Quarry type.

[El Kabong]

Taylor beat him in the rematch, FACT

At both guy's best weight, Taylor was brutally knocked out in a big upset. Fact.

True, but Taylor's lifestyle (and his stamina) caught up to him much like Pavlik's did....all a matter of timing really. Imagine if they had met pre-Hopkins....that would have been a better scrap.

I've got nothing against Kelly, he was a good hardnosed fighter

[Beanflicker]

I was a huge fan of Taylor, but Pavlik beat the shit out of him.

[El Kabong]

I was a huge fan of Taylor, but Pavlik beat the shit out of him.

....in the first fight

[Violent Demise]

I think he lacked the physical tools to adapt to certain styles, he wasn't remotely "weak" or anything like that. He was a great accumulative puncher when he got into a rhythm, but since he wasn't nearly as fast or slick as some he sort of died by the same sword once he was getting beat to the punch. Perhaps he wasn't always in top condition, and he didn't have a rock solid chin either, but there was never a point in a fight where he stopped trying to win imo.

Go watch the Hopkins fight. He pretty much stopped trying the last half of the fight. He continued coming forward but everybody knew he needed a knock out. And he never even tried for it. Hopkins exposed him as being one-dimensional. Hopkins took away Trinidad's left hook and left him hopeless. With Pavlik he took away his right hand. Pavlik had no idea what to do than.

[p4pking]

I've seen that fight a handful of times. I know you have a pretty broad idea of what giving up means, but I don't buy that. He couldn't land flush on Hopkins late on, all of his energy was being used against him the whole fight, that's exactly what I meant. Had he tried to force the issue he would have most likely gotten knocked out himself. He was kept on a leash and had his output reduced to nothing, but he was still trying. There's a difference between not being effective and not going postal and getting stretchered out once you're behind.

[Spicoli]

The first Taylor fight was something special. It was clear he wasn't the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree as it was in Hopkins and Martinez fight but he came back in a big way there. Last time I saw him go wobbly and nearly get ko'd laughing at a guy. Crazy moment. I do think he resigned himself in Hopkins fight, he didn't quit but Hopkins schooled badly and he knew it late.

[Violent Demise]

I've seen that fight a handful of times. I know you have a pretty broad idea of what giving up means, but I don't buy that. He couldn't land flush on Hopkins late on, all of his energy was being used against him the whole fight, that's exactly what I meant. Had he tried to force the issue he would have most likely gotten knocked out himself. He was kept on a leash and had his output reduced to nothing, but he was still trying. There's a difference between not being effective and not going postal and getting stretchered out once you're behind.

Obviously he didn't quit. And yes he was still coming forward throwing the same thing over and over. But like I said everybody knew he needed a knock out. And he never went for it. He had accepted his defeat

[armin]

I like pavlik and even as late as till a few months ago was hoping he would make a successful comeback. hell the only person who outclassed him was hop, and he was just the latest in a long line of many who that happened to. As it is now I just wish him the best and hope that he can overcome his addictions and lead a relatively normal life, hopefully he doesn't pop in the news in the future for something worse than "skipped out on cab fare".

[IamInuit]

Yup. Many were never the same after Hop. Tito, Taylor, Tarver, Pavlik and maybe Cloud.