30 for 30: Duran - Leonard

[Ron Swanson]

I've probably watched Duran/Leonard 1 more then any other fight save Chacon/Limon 4. I'm not convinced that Duran won.

I'm not convinced he lost it. It was a close fight. A lot more than people remember it to be. Both landed big punches. But Duran clearly hurt Leonard a lot more than Leonard hurt him

Yup I agree. I think the case could be made for either man. Its simply not as clear cut as many assume it to be.

I tend to agree. In the larger sense neither fighter was a loser that night. As for the scorecards it could have gone either way. I tend to think this is one of those fights that the judges could see more than the television viewers. Ray admits how hard that fight was for him. Maybe the judges could see that as well.

But there is also the possibility that how it was fought influenced the judges. Sometimes they score it towards the boxer if it's a boxing match or towards the brawler if it's a brawl. Some times unfairly. In this fight I think Duran was rewarded the swing rounds for his ring generalship and that seems justifiable. It's strange to say but I usually score it 8-7 Leonard but say Duran won the fight.

[Violent Demise]

I've probably watched Duran/Leonard 1 more then any other fight save Chacon/Limon 4. I'm not convinced that Duran won.

I'm not convinced he lost it. It was a close fight. A lot more than people remember it to be. Both landed big punches. But Duran clearly hurt Leonard a lot more than Leonard hurt him

Yup I agree. I think the case could be made for either man. Its simply not as clear cut as many assume it to be.

I tend to agree. In the larger sense neither fighter was a loser that night. As for the scorecards it could have gone either way. I tend to think this is one of those fights that the judges could see more than the television viewers. Ray admits how hard that fight was for him. Maybe the judges could see that as well.

But there is also the possibility that how it was fought influenced the judges. Sometimes they score it towards the boxer if it's a boxing match or towards the brawler if it's a brawl. Some times unfairly. In this fight I think Duran was rewarded the swing rounds for his ring generalship and that seems justifiable. It's strange to say but I usually score it 8-7 Leonard but say Duran won the fight.

Perception played a big part. Duran looked liken he was the boss the whole fight. His mannerisms and the way he bullied Leonard helped him out. Even in the rounds Leonard won it always looked like Duran was in charge.

[Master]

It was a close fight and Duran probably got it more of perception that Leonard was "dragged into a war" with Duran rather than Leonard wanted to show Roberto that he could fight with him punch for punch.

[Beanflicker]

I believe 100% that Duran won the first fight. I can't see it SRL's way.

But that being said, I think SRL lost because he fought a dumb fight because Duran got into his head.

Duran was a great fighter and I'm a big fan of his, but to me NOTHING excuses quitting in the ring like he did. People always try to make excuses for him, but to me there's no excuse for it. It was a disgrace to boxing. To quit because SRL was clowning him? Or because Duran had a tummy ache from making weight? Come on, man...

SRL was the better fighter. He proved it in that fight. If Duran wasn't in shape for it, tough shit, that's on him. A mark of a great fighter is that he always comes to his fights 100% prepared. If Duran didn't come prepared against a fighter the caliber of SRL, than he's an idiot and that is a serious mark on his career.

[Master]

It isa serious mark on his career but his career is so long he has got away with it. He beat Moore and Barclay afterwards which more than made up for the quitting.

[THE THIRD MAN]

By the time Duran fought Leonard in Montreal he had been fighting for 12 years and his record was 71-1. That is a lot of boxing for a man not yet 30 years old. It was the last time we ever saw Roberto Duran at his peak, he won a close decision, but he did win, he landed the harder punches and more often was the aggressor. He was great that night.

No Mas highlights a fighter who had achieved everything he ever needed to achieve in the ring, by New Orleans he was already half the fighter he was just 6 months earlier. Leonard knew about Duran's weight issues, he knew about his preparation problems, he knew about the partying, he also knew if he waited any longer for a rematch then those problems might just get solved. Leonard had his man the moment the 2nd fight was signed. Duran should've made Leonard sweat on a rematch for a year.

Duran's own temperament, partying, rapid weight loss and his total under- estimation of Leonard's abilities beat him that night. I'm not buying any of the Leonard in-ring wizardry that befuddled Duran in New Orleans. Leonard was very good, but he wasn't that good that he could humiliate Roberto Duran. Duran was a 12 year veteran, already a legend by 1980 and arguably the greatest Lightweight champion of all time, Duran beat himself before the first bell sounded and he has no one to blame but himself for that.

Sugar Ray Leonard won the fight and would've won a decision, the result was never in doubt before a single punch was thrown.

We never saw the greatness of Roberto Duran again. He fought on another 21 years when he should've retired after the Hearns disaster.

[Beanflicker]

The phrase "he beat himself" is one of my biggest pet peeves. Boxing comes down to a lot more than skill. You need heart, determination, durability, and DISCIPLINE to go with it. That all gets factored in.

Saying "ohh well he only lost because he wasn't in shape" is, to me, the same as saying "ohh he only lost because he has a glass jaw" or "he only lost because he doesn't have heart." Who cares? Showing up in shape is part of being a great fighter, the same way the ability to take/throw a punch is. If he never showed up in shape than that for sure detracts from him as a fighter.

And this notion that he peaked in the first fight and then was washed up 6 months later... pure nut huggery. He got outboxed by a better fighter. Was he washed up when De Jesus put him on his ass and beat him in New York?

He looked fined a few years later when he was fighting with benitez, or beating the hell out of Cuevas and Moore at higher weights, or fighting compeditively with Marvin Hagler.

He wasn't washed up. He got completely bitched out in his prime by a superior fighter.

[zhubin]

By the time Duran fought Leonard in Montreal he had been fighting for 12 years and his record was 71-1. That is a lot of boxing for a man not yet 30 years old. It was the last time we ever saw Roberto Duran at his peak, he won a close decision, but he did win, he landed the harder punches and more often was the aggressor. He was great that night.

No Mas highlights a fighter who had achieved everything he ever needed to achieve in the ring, by New Orleans he was already half the fighter he was just 6 months earlier. Leonard knew about Duran's weight issues, he knew about his preparation problems, he knew about the partying, he also knew if he waited any longer for a rematch then those problems might just get solved. Leonard had his man the moment the 2nd fight was signed. Duran should've made Leonard sweat on a rematch for a year.

Duran's own temperament, partying, rapid weight loss and his total under- estimation of Leonard's abilities beat him that night. I'm not buying any of the Leonard in-ring wizardry that befuddled Duran in New Orleans. Leonard was very good, but he wasn't that good that he could humiliate Roberto Duran. Duran was a 12 year veteran, already a legend by 1980 and arguably the greatest Lightweight champion of all time, Duran beat himself before the first bell sounded and he has no one to blame but himself for that.

Sugar Ray Leonard won the fight and would've won a decision, the result was never in doubt before a single punch was thrown.

We never saw the greatness of Roberto Duran again. He fought on another 21 years when he should've retired after the Hearns disaster.

Well said. Even though part of the motivation for Duran to take the second fight so quickly was the huge payday...part of it was also who he was as a fighter/person. He was not the kind of fighter who was going to make an opponent wait a short while (Ray with Duran in second fight) or a long while (like Ray did with Hagler) to gain the advantage. Not excusing his lack of focus/preparation for the rematch against Leonard...but just saying.

[Master]

By the time Duran fought Leonard in Montreal he had been fighting for 12 years and his record was 71-1. That is a lot of boxing for a man not yet 30 years old. It was the last time we ever saw Roberto Duran at his peak, he won a close decision, but he did win, he landed the harder punches and more often was the aggressor. He was great that night.

No Mas highlights a fighter who had achieved everything he ever needed to achieve in the ring, by New Orleans he was already half the fighter he was just 6 months earlier. Leonard knew about Duran's weight issues, he knew about his preparation problems, he knew about the partying, he also knew if he waited any longer for a rematch then those problems might just get solved. Leonard had his man the moment the 2nd fight was signed. Duran should've made Leonard sweat on a rematch for a year.

Duran's own temperament, partying, rapid weight loss and his total under- estimation of Leonard's abilities beat him that night. I'm not buying any of the Leonard in-ring wizardry that befuddled Duran in New Orleans. Leonard was very good, but he wasn't that good that he could humiliate Roberto Duran. Duran was a 12 year veteran, already a legend by 1980 and arguably the greatest Lightweight champion of all time, Duran beat himself before the first bell sounded and he has no one to blame but himself for that.

Sugar Ray Leonard won the fight and would've won a decision, the result was never in doubt before a single punch was thrown.

We never saw the greatness of Roberto Duran again. He fought on another 21 years when he should've retired after the Hearns disaster.

One of Duran's greatest nights against Barkley would have been missed.

[chris6878]

anybody noticed that tyson looked to be in pretty good shape again?