Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
I am not looking for an argument as I am not into, I disagree with some of what you say but I won't say it is all wrong. As you know I am an American. I find one our bigger atrocities to be how our Supreme Court has been interpreting the Constitution. It opens the door to too much of this BS. I won't list cases as foreigners are probably not familiar with our internal affairs to such an extent. Unfortunately just about every President we have ever had lies and misleads. Both parties. If you can find me an honest politician in the world I will name my next cat after you. Every country has blood on its hands, and I am not using that as an excuse, just the truth. Certain parts of the American experiment has worked out well, a lot have not. I think one of our biggest problems is apathy. We just accept what they do. Look at the voting percentages, half the country doesn't even bother to vote. One of the best thing I can say about America is most of our politicians of great hair. Don't think for a minute that Americans our not aware of our problems. There are many here who make you look proamerican. Although you feel you wrote our history before it happens it has been done here by many authors long before you, and I don't say that as an insult
Walrus, your country is spying on its own allies. It is spying on communications the world over. It is highlighting keywords of anything that anyone critical is saying. Your country is vanishing people, torturing people, making up lies to invade, droning. In many respects, I couldn't care less about America. Those people on high are scum. My only problem is that it is trying to play policeman and is the bankrobber in the room. 'Iran, we cannot let you have nukes, but yes, Israel will build more settlements, and we will nuke you if you don't agree'. The rhetoric is insane.

It is nothing against any American person, and I know that so many of you are adorable and beautiful people and I mean that. I upset people with my views though. I know that I am on the same side as most of you though. It's the same side really.
Every country is doing the spying thing. How many countries do you think refrain from spying on the US. China gets us good and many of our allies have their hand in the cookies jar. To be honest, I think whoever the NSA officer was that listened to Merkels conversation should get a promotion. That German pig is tough to listen to. Our allies are plotting against us. In this was before This whole NSA thing broke. We actually probably learned a lot from England, you guys like to know everything and you seem to always get the video, very impressive. My main question to you Gandalf, and I ask with all due respect, do you think anything you have written here is a major revelation to Americans? Do you think you brought anything up that made me say OMG. I think you are smart enough to know that isn't so but you present, at times as some major revelation.
No, I don't present revelations. But to discover that EVERYTHING that you thought was private was a myth is a revelation. I am astounded that the secret services have potentially been listening to private conversations in the home due to the ability to turn on my phone microphone without me knowing. As an obscure, private person, that is a revelation to me. I knew it was bad, I knew social networking was little more than free spying, but I am appalled by how bad it really is. They have tracked your emails, your phone conversations, everything is on record. In fact today it was revealed that they know so much, but wanted to keep it hushed as they didn't want it public and the reason for that is because they knew they were acting in legally questionable ways. Well, now it is all out. We even have the evidence that they knew they were acting in the wrong, but wanted to get away with it.

Now what does any of that have to do with terrorism and national security? Spying on 35 world leaders, most of whom are allies? Snooping on emails of ordinary passport holders, who are no threat. Spying on Americans at the least should be something that you are against constitutionally, it is also against UN rules to invade privacy for no good reason. Being petty about Merkel is silly, but okay, let's stretch it and assume she is a public figure and all politicians should be targets, but what about everyone else? Should you really have to worry about them storing metadata? Potentially have them turn on the microphone when you are at home?

You shouldn't defend it as it is a slippery slope to saying that you don't have a right to privacy. Yes, you do! In America more people are killed with handguns by a multiple of 10 than those killed in 9/11. Since then the multiplication simply jumps to absurd levels. Terrorism is not a danger to ordinary Americans and this surveillance is just not justified.

You are a human and you should not reduce yourself just because psychopaths tell you it is for your own safety. They are not telling the truth. Their entire history shows that they have the jobs they do because they are good at telling lies.

Lyle is right about Obama. The man is a pathological liar. However, it clearly doesn't matter who is in the White House. More than ever the rogues have shown that it is all in their hands.