Why the hate for big brother?

[powerpuncher]

i dont mind them. they are just very overrated by some people. i understand that wlad is just a boring fighter but that doesnt factor into what i think of him as a fighter.

[Max Power]

They are publicly down trodden by an enormous percentage of the boxing world whilst being the heavyweight champions for the best part of a decade and so dominant no clear top contender exists. Only 1 other heavyweight has ever done this (Lewis). How can they be "overrated".

Who had better win opponents than the Klitschko's?

Lennox Lewis? Maybe

Evander Holyfield? Perhaps

But none of the below...

Riddick Bowe? Fought mismatched opponents for the most part and only wins of great significance are against Holyfield!

Mike Tyson? Fought bums until he won the championship, fought good fighters until he got locked up, then fought shit for wins and everytime he stepped up to the plate for the big time got wasted!

Larry Holmes? Fought a lot of bums but some good opponents too. The good opponents like Witherspoon gave him all he could handle, he got beaten by cruiser Spinks and wasted by Tyson. Best win was probably a green Mercer.

Muhammad Ali? Fought bums and cruisers when "prime", Liston was a plodder, this Ali was too weak to threaten a modern HW. A stronger 70's Ali indeed fought better opponents but apart from George Foreman they were nothing special. Frazier and Norton would be knocked out today by journeymen and Shavers barely knew how to box! Lyle was no better than Austin or Brock.

George Foreman? Beat exclusively bums and weak jawed opponents. Only barely could box. Everytime he faced a decent opponent (Young, Ali, Holyfield, Morrison, Briggs) he lost!

Only Klitschko's, Lewis and Holyfield can claim to have "beaten strong opponents".

[erics44]

wlads reign is stoopid, how anyone can buy the level of corruption in his fights is beyond me

vitali tho is exciting at times although it seems to be gone now and i doubt he will fight a top contender again

[Vendettos]

Wlad is a bori fighter that uses his advantages well in a weak division.

Vitali is a solid and fairly exciting fighter, that would have worked well in any era.

[Fenster]

Wlad's dominance of the division never before seen? The only thing never before seen is someone being lauded as a standout dominant champion with a tag-team partner.

[powerpuncher]

They are publicly down trodden by an enormous percentage of the boxing world whilst being the heavyweight champions for the best part of a decade and so dominant no clear top contender exists. Only 1 other heavyweight has ever done this (Lewis). How can they be "overrated".

Who had better win opponents than the Klitschko's?

Lennox Lewis? Maybe

Evander Holyfield? Perhaps

But none of the below...

Riddick Bowe? Fought mismatched opponents for the most part and only wins of great significance are against Holyfield!

Mike Tyson? Fought bums until he won the championship, fought good fighters until he got locked up, then fought shit for wins and everytime he stepped up to the plate for the big time got wasted!

Larry Holmes? Fought a lot of bums but some good opponents too. The good opponents like Witherspoon gave him all he could handle, he got beaten by cruiser Spinks and wasted by Tyson. Best win was probably a green Mercer.

Muhammad Ali? Fought bums and cruisers when "prime", Liston was a plodder, this Ali was too weak to threaten a modern HW. A stronger 70's Ali indeed fought better opponents but apart from George Foreman they were nothing special. Frazier and Norton would be knocked out today by journeymen and Shavers barely knew how to box! Lyle was no better than Austin or Brock.

George Foreman? Beat exclusively bums and weak jawed opponents. Only barely could box. Everytime he faced a decent opponent (Young, Ali, Holyfield, Morrison, Briggs) he lost!

Only Klitschko's, Lewis and Holyfield can claim to have "beaten strong opponents".

this is about my limit. ive tried to give you the benefit of the doubt up until now but this post just pushing me over the edge. the 70's is known as the golden age of HWs, yet you are saying that right now, which is known as the worst HW division in history, the HWs are better? if austin and brock are as good as lyle then the klits would have to be #1 and #2 HWs of all time. if as you say, this HW division is so good, i might even say that the klits are the best of all time p4p since they are so easily walking through everybody.

lets take a look at a great fighter from the past. ill take joe louis. he fought all bums obviously. hence the name "the bum of the month." he almost lost to a light HW which makes him no match for anybody in this day and age because they are too big. oh wait! i forgot that he fought multiple big guys. primo carnera was 6'5 1/2 260 pounds, max baer was 6'3 210 pounds, buddy baer was 6'6 250 pounds, abe simon was 6'4 240 pounds. he also lost to schmelling who was 200 pounds and charles who was a former light HW. actually, that list right there is already a lot better than todays HWs and there are more people that louis fought.

the big factor is so overrated. like i always say, there is a reason that the klits took over once lewis retired along with the other decent HWs of the time. its because they werent good enough to dominate with some competition. again, if you truly think that people like ray austin and calvin brock are as good as ron lyle then you must have only heard names of old boxers but never seen them fight. and those 2 fighters were never even thought of to be any good by anyone. ray austin has always been known to be a bum. so again, if he is that good, this HW division is amazing which makes the klits the best ever. and we all know that isnt true.

so like i said before, i dont mind the klits, but i just dont like that they are overrated. although ive never seen anybody overrate them as much as you. i might as well start claiming that chris john is the best featherweight ever because of his dominance of the featherweight division.

[Max Power]

Sorry powerpuncher but you have just upstaged yourself with that comment. Take a good look at 193lb Scmelling who today we would regard as a cruiserweight. Not one CW would come to fight looking like Scmelling today for a start and his style was so crude by today's standards he wouldn't stand a chance in that division today let alone against the heavyweights.

More the point, those giant heavies of the past Louis fought are NOTHING like the giant boxers that are common place today, where a 220lb 6'2" fighter might be considered "too small to make a serious impact!!" sometimes. Simon, Carnera, Baer, they were all absolute oafs! The Nikolay Valuev's of the distant past relying completely on their size to be effective. The big guys today are skilled fighters and tremendous athletes as well as being tall and heavily muscled.

In Louis's day the small guys had the skills. Today the big guys have the skills as well! Joe Louis was wasted by Scmelling and almost knocked out by Danni Devito look alike Tony Galento. What HW today would seriously be threatened by him? Louis is an ATG but he is no Evander Holyfield or David Haye and cannot really cut it with good big men. Only with acromegalic Carnera and co.

The real golden age was the 90's. More specifically from the crowning of Tyson to the 1st retirement of Vitali. This was a global era with the opening up of Eastern Europe in competition with great American and British heavyweights. It was an era of superheavyweight punchers and the most exciting fights ever captured on film.

[Max Power]

I never claimed guys like Austin were great in this era. Only that guys like that would be a handful for champs of the past.

Ali got dropped by Cooper, Louis got dropped by Galento. Austin would knock Cooper and Galento out without a fight!

[Beanz]

I thought @Saddo had started this thread in the wrong section.

[palmerq]

vitali has slowed down quite a bit from his entertaining best before his first retirement but he is still very far removed from a boring style in my opinion... he looks very awkward but he gets out the way of punches well and throws back and doesnt over clinch... Why do some people "hate"? errr because its the internets and that what people do if you like someone you make up reason why their great and if you dont then you make up reason why they are crap S: the truth is out there... somewhere :S

[powerpuncher]

Sorry powerpuncher but you have just upstaged yourself with that comment. Take a good look at 193lb Scmelling who today we would regard as a cruiserweight. Not one CW would come to fight looking like Scmelling today for a start and his style was so crude by today's standards he wouldn't stand a chance in that division today let alone against the heavyweights.

More the point, those giant heavies of the past Louis fought are NOTHING like the giant boxers that are common place today, where a 220lb 6'2" fighter might be considered "too small to make a serious impact!!" sometimes. Simon, Carnera, Baer, they were all absolute oafs! The Nikolay Valuev's of the distant past relying completely on their size to be effective. The big guys today are skilled fighters and tremendous athletes as well as being tall and heavily muscled.

In Louis's day the small guys had the skills. Today the big guys have the skills as well! Joe Louis was wasted by Scmelling and almost knocked out by Danni Devito look alike Tony Galento. What HW today would seriously be threatened by him? Louis is an ATG but he is no Evander Holyfield or David Haye and cannot really cut it with good big men. Only with acromegalic Carnera and co.

The real golden age was the 90's. More specifically from the crowning of Tyson to the 1st retirement of Vitali. This was a global era with the opening up of Eastern Europe in competition with great American and British heavyweights. It was an era of superheavyweight punchers and the most exciting fights ever captured on film.

from that statement right there you lose all credibility from anybody who knows anything about boxing thus a debate with you is pointless.

[Max Power]

You cannot seriously be implying a champion from 80 years ago would be anything but a journeyman for a modern HW! Those are very rose coloured glasses your wearing if you are!

[powerpuncher]

you cannot seriously be considering that david haye is better than joe louis. again, talk to any boxing expert and they would all call you crazy.