James Toney wants Wilder: " I want a piece of that little punk "

[p4pking]

Don't take this out on Lyle just because he can handle his drink I've never been on Eastside boxing, and I generally use curse words tongue in cheek on this board. I'm hardly the worst offender there and I'm in no way getting personal, nor do I often do that over any issue around here, unlike yourself. I understand having favourites and being biased towards certain styles, but Toney can no longer operate at a reasonable level and I don't find that terribly interesting, plus I'd rather not see him knocked out to end his run.

[Gandalf]

You missed out the ''t' part, but I will excuse that. I get personal sometimes, but no more than others who can be more bellicose and in my defence I deal with a lot more hostility than many too as I refuse to muddle through quietly. As I said in the other thread though, I think you are alright.

On the Toney issue, I see exactly where you are coming from and I know that you are partly right. Toney is 45 and hasn't won a meangingful fight in several years. Part of it is the fact that I am a fan and he is one of my favourites, but the other part is also Captain Ahab in his search for the great whale. You can't quite let it go until the bitter end. Boxing and a favourite fighter can end up being like an existential howl into the wilderness with the eternal cry "I will battle the elements, I shall resist time, I shall wrestle with my soul into the aching dawn, for I am and it can be". More often than not the mission can be futile, steeped in failure and disappointment and countless false starts, but there is something grand in the gesture. With every rise there has to be a fall and for all his plummeting; both down the rankings and occasionally through the pounds, there is a faintest flicker of a resurrection. Heck, it's far more realistic than the Jesus back from the dead nonsense. JFAT alliance for life.

[IamInuit]

Call me crazy but I think even this version of Toney still has what one might call enough muscle memory as a master counter puncher to get in between those extra wide punches Wilder throws that seem to originate in a different country.

You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.

I don't think Wilder has a chin at all and I think Toney is still clever enough to get one in and test it.

And a silence comes over the crowd as they hear a lone smart ass from the bleeders saying "timber" with a long drawn out pitch.

[Beanflicker]

You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.

He had to be joking.

The theory that a strong jaw protects you from getting knocked out is one of the most idiotic myths in boxing history.

It's like saying a guy is tough because he literally has an enlarged heart.

As for Toney, he could never bust a grape at HW.

[Gandalf]

Explain Toney then. The man has never been knocked out in almost 90 fights, he has never been seriously hurt. The man started at MW and HW's don't hurt him, there is no myth about an iron jaw. Some fighters can take a lot more than others.

You will never see Toney like Hatton, Pac, Jones Jr, as the man has a proven iron jaw. He seems to really, really dig it.

Toney doesn't need to bust anything at HW. He is quicker than most of them and can wobble them. Toney is old, but still sharper. He is now also more trim, so why not put him in there with Wilder? If Toney gets knocked out he knows he is done, but if he doesn't then he proves Wilder is a hoax and the show goes on.

[Beanflicker]

Explain Toney then. The man has never been knocked out in almost 90 fights, he has never been seriously hurt. The man started at MW and HW's don't hurt him, there is no myth about an iron jaw. Some fighters can take a lot more than others.

You will never see Toney like Hatton, Pac, Jones Jr, as the man has a proven iron jaw. He seems to really, really dig it.

Toney doesn't need to bust anything at HW. He is quicker than most of them and can wobble them. Toney is old, but still sharper. He is now also more trim, so why not put him in there with Wilder? If Toney gets knocked out he knows he is done, but if he doesn't then he proves Wilder is a hoax and the show goes on.

You misunderstood what I said.

I'm not saying there's no such thing as an iron jaw. CLEARLY there are guys who can take more punishment than others. I'm saying that it has nothing to do with how strong your actual jaw is. Having a "strong jaw" is a figure of speech to mean you can take a punch, just like having a "big heart" is a figure of speech to say a guy is brave, not to indicate that he has an enlarged heart.

The ability to take a punch is determined by the body's (skull, neck, traps, shoulders, ect) ability to absorb the concussive shocks of a punch so that the brain doesn't slam off the skull and get shut off. It has nothing to do with strong jaw muscles. What jaw muscles would do to prevent the brain from slamming off the skull is beyond me.

If you think Toney would stand a chance in hell against Wilder, you're insane. He just lost to a complete bum in England, who has a 24% KO percentage (putting him 5 points above KO Artist Paulie Malignaggi's 19%). James is slow, he's short and dumpy, he has pathetic power at HW, and his once amazing reflexes are shot.

James is one of my favorite fighters of all time, so I'd rather not see him get killed in the ring. He was diagnosed with brain damage as early as 2005. His body doesn't produce testosterone anymore because of the punches he took. He gets by on hormone replacement therapy. And I want to see him get in with a 6'8'' axe murdered like Wilder WHY?

It's a stupid fight for both guys. Wilder needs to step up and fight real competition, and James needs to realize that his ship sailed years ago.

[Beanflicker]

Wilder might have his chin checked, but it'll be against a real HW like Robert Helenius, Arreola, David Price, Thompson, Fury, Klitschko, ect.

Toney isn't checking anyone's chin, especially at this age.

It's like expecting Paulie Maligaggi to chin check somebody.

[IamInuit]

You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.

He had to be joking.

The theory that a strong jaw protects you from getting knocked out is one of the most idiotic myths in boxing history.

It's like saying a guy is tough because he literally has an enlarged heart.

As for Toney, he could never bust a grape at HW.

No he was serious and I'm of the mind and have always been of the mind that you are born with a chin, just like power. But who am I to argue with Chuvalo.

Wilder ought to start chewing just to be on the safe side lol.

[beenKOed]

Call me crazy but I think even this version of Toney still has what one might call enough muscle memory as a master counter puncher to get in between those extra wide punches Wilder throws that seem to originate in a different country.

You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.

I don't think Wilder has a chin at all and I think Toney is still clever enough to get one in and test it.

And a silence comes over the crowd as they hear a lone smart ass from the bleeders saying "timber" with a long drawn out pitch.

Anything can happen in the ring, so you could be right, but Wilder does have a decent jab and Toney will be eating a ton of them. Toney is not what he was, remember that if you see him on the canvas.
The Bubble gum theory could be correct, but I think Chuvalo's neck and disposition should be taken into account too.

[IamInuit]

Call me crazy but I think even this version of Toney still has what one might call enough muscle memory as a master counter puncher to get in between those extra wide punches Wilder throws that seem to originate in a different country.

You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.

I don't think Wilder has a chin at all and I think Toney is still clever enough to get one in and test it.

And a silence comes over the crowd as they hear a lone smart ass from the bleeders saying "timber" with a long drawn out pitch.

Anything can happen in the ring, so you could be right, but Wilder does have a decent jab and Toney will be eating a ton of them. Toney is not what he was, remember that if you see him on the canvas.
The Bubble gum theory could be correct, but I think Chuvalo's neck and disposition should be taken into account too.

All I am saying is that even in Toneys depleted state, he still has the ability to get off the ropes and get in between those wide shots and I think Wilders chin is a real issue.

[beenKOed]

Call me crazy but I think even this version of Toney still has what one might call enough muscle memory as a master counter puncher to get in between those extra wide punches Wilder throws that seem to originate in a different country.

You know George Chuvalo has recently went on record about a week ago saying that he credits his addiction to Double Bubble as the reason for his granite chin. I actually believe him. You can see the jaw muscles at work in the mirror with a mouth full of that gum. I was probably chewing DB when I watched him fight the then Clay in 66. Back then a piece of DB was about the same size as an ounce of hash.

I don't think Wilder has a chin at all and I think Toney is still clever enough to get one in and test it.

And a silence comes over the crowd as they hear a lone smart ass from the bleeders saying "timber" with a long drawn out pitch.

Anything can happen in the ring, so you could be right, but Wilder does have a decent jab and Toney will be eating a ton of them. Toney is not what he was, remember that if you see him on the canvas.
The Bubble gum theory could be correct, but I think Chuvalo's neck and disposition should be taken into account too.

All I am saying is that even in Toneys depleted state, he still has the ability to get off the ropes and get in between those wide shots and I think Wilders chin is a real issue.

I am not looking for an argument, but why do you think Wilder's chin is an issue? I haven't seen it tested yet, what did I miss? Maybe you think his puffy record points to a weak chin? I'm just interested in what you have to say about the chin.

[IamInuit]

I am not looking for an argument, but why do you think Wilder's chin is an issue? I haven't seen it tested yet, what did I miss? Maybe you think his puffy record points to a weak chin? I'm just interested in what you have to say about the chin.

Lol neither am I. I just think they are hiding something and its most likely his chin. His careful handling is more then coddling. To me its paranoia. I think the Firtha fight sustained it for me. Wilder looked stunned by a jab that had nothing on it. I'm starting to feel the same way about one of my favourites in Gary Russell.