What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

[powerpuncher]

the main problem with your argument is that it is all based on what you think and has no factual evidence. you think that frazier doesnt hit harder than wlad. im not saying that you are wrong but im saying that its just an opinion that has really no weight to it. you are also forgetting that HWs wore smaller gloves back at that time too. whether or not people hit harder now, smaller gloves would probably make up the difference.

remember that williamson knocked down wlad on a counter right and he only weighed 218 pounds for the fight. ali weighed 216 for the foreman fight. williamson was 6'4 and ali was 6'3. so they were essentially the same size. and you should know that williamson should have beaten wlad on the scorecards at the time of the stoppage but wlad got a gift. williamson isnt known to have a great chin (he got KO'd in 1 round by mesi) and ali is known to be able to take punishment. also, ali is definitely faster than williamson and has a better jab and footwork. if williamson was able to outbox wlad, ali definitely would be able to.

The main problem with your counter argument is that the same reason you have tried to use against me is the reason why you are wrong. My argument is backed up by 3 different forms of evidence...

Visual evidence... Modern fighters, look better than older ones and they look like they fight better and hit harder than their older counterparts.

Anecdotal evidence... The premise that everything improves in some way over time, it's beyond all doubt that athletes are getting fitter, faster and stronger and craft is being refined as time goes by, it cannot be otherwise.

And most importantly STATISTICAL evididence... Wladimir and his opponents have higher readings in the tale of the tape, better records against opponents who are bigger and with better records and their KO ratio's against their opponents are in general much higher than Ali and his opponents.

And all this is being even MORE generous to the old timers because their division was a combination of both Cruiserweight and Heavyweight today and modern Heavies are not ALLOWED to pad their records against such opponents. Once we view their records against modern criteria we see that Frazier only won 13 fights against real HW's and Ali only 28 times! Only HALF their opponents were even HW's and the further we go back in time the worse it gets!

If you want to say they were called HW's then so it counts then you also have to include all the cruiser fights of all the former cruisers that have stepped up to HW today like Adamek and Haye today and you can see then how Frazier and even Ali would probably not be any match for David Haye!

So when different forms of evidence converge on the same thing you can be pretty sure it's true, that's what bookies do when they make odds and that's why I have a good idea when to and when not to bet on a fight and usually pick them good when I do. And could fights be staged today between fighters past and present I can tell ya not many from the 70s would have great odds on them to win my friend!

And well done, you mention a fight Wladimir won KO2 as "evidence" that he would lose to one of the most punch weak champs of all time. I think Ali might perform better, he might survive to round 4 LOL! Seriously I could just as easily state that Ali was KD by 185lb! Cooper or beaten by 197lb Spinks who Waldimir wouldn't be allowed to fight and would knock out with 1 punch if he did so there's no way by this logic that Muhammad could beat Wladimir, same goes!

I respect the old timers but their time is history!

i dont think that you really made any argument other than the eye test. you are just under the assumption that modern training exceeds old training so boxers from today are just better than before. its just an ignorant assumption. and again, i cant take you seriously if you watch old great fighters and actually think that they look less than great. i think that its just your bias that makes them look worse.

also, im not sure what you are referring to when you said "And well done, you mention a fight Wladimir won KO2 as "evidence" that he would lose to one of the most punch weak champs of all time." the only fight i mentioned was the williamson fight and it went to a technical decision.

again, your arguments have no substance. they are only what you perceive and there really arent really many facts after all of these pages that you have written.

[Max Power]

Sorry I must have mistaken who you were talking about, I thought you were referring to Parnell fight, my apologies. It's hard to remember all of your points being swamped with so much BS.

Seriously though you have made claim here that you can't take me seriously when I say that these past warriors don't look so great on film... Ok... Do me a favour.

What is your opinion of FOTC? Do you think this is masterful boxing? Before Wlad vs Povetkin this was the most clinchy fight of all time (initiated by Ali of course). The approximate summary the entire way through is that Muhammad's footwork and speed had slowed down just enoughfrom his wiry 60's days to reveal the hard truth about him... His reflexes sucked! He got hit by the slowest punches and was apparently blind to the left hook. Diminutive dwarf Joe Frazier marched forward continually with a 1 dimensional attack based around his left hook which over the course of 15 rounds, Ali was unable to work out and unable to evade. Both fighters were leaning on each other and the ropes and Muhammad was exercising his disgusting head push technique and trash talking, both apparently completely out of breath.

Frazier should have KO'd Ali in that fight and would have were he not a complete powder puff puncher with a 44% KO ratio over real HW's! Muhammad was apparently born 30 years too early to learn how to keep an opponent like that off him.

Punch bag's at their finest! And I wouldn't be surprised if I could withstand some of those punches!

Frazier vs Ali
Foreman vs Ali
Foreman vs Frazier
Foreman vs Roman (the most pathetic thing I have EVER seen)
Ali vs Evangelista

I could go on. Have you watched these fights lately? Watch them closely, without your own bias interfering and then watch say, Bowe/Holyfield, or Lewis/Klitschko, or Klitschko/Haye and then tell me honestly you don't see the difference!