What would happen if Klitschko called out Ali's opponents?

[Max Power]

They both ended up being stinkers of champions Eric lol.

I think you'll find that the stamina of todays boxers is far better in terms of their VO2max and it can be directly measured. Because of not only the size but the explosive training done these days that was not in the past though they tend to fight in bursts of high energy punches rather than sustained tippy tap type shots. Were a current fighter to throw shots like Ali they'd no doubt sustain it much longer. But he would get walked through imo.

Ibeabuchi and Tua were modern boxers and they broke the record for punches thrown in a HW fight. And they weighed 240lbs, Ike was pure muscle and Tua was muscle and fat. Neither looked anywhere near as puffed as Frazier and Ali.

We can agree to disagree power puncher it's ok, I respect your opinion and it's fine for you to have it I'm obviously not changing your mind either, I just want to point out that it is you guys who make the outrageous claim that fighters from 50 years ago would take it to todays guys and then try to say that I don't have evidence. The burden of proof should be on you.

[erics44]

They both ended up being stinkers of champions Eric lol.

I think you'll find that the stamina of todays boxers is far better in terms of their VO2max and it can be directly measured. Because of not only the size but the explosive training done these days that was not in the past though they tend to fight in bursts of high energy punches rather than sustained tippy tap type shots. Were a current fighter to throw shots like Ali they'd no doubt sustain it much longer. But he would get walked through imo.

Ibeabuchi and Tua were modern boxers and they broke the record for punches thrown in a HW fight. And they weighed 240lbs, Ike was pure muscle and Tua was muscle and fat. Neither looked anywhere near as puffed as Frazier and Ali.

We can agree to disagree power puncher it's ok, I respect your opinion and it's fine for you to have it I'm obviously not changing your mind either, I just want to point out that it is you guys who make the outrageous claim that fighters from 50 years ago would take it to todays guys and then try to say that I don't have evidence. The burden of proof should be on you.

i completely agree that if you picked ali out of the 70s or 60s or whatever when he was in tip top condition and put him in with a fighter of today who utilizes the advanced training methods and diets then ali would struggle

if ali had those benefits it would be a different story

yes the ali of that period would be one of todays cruiserweights but people are getting bigger so he would probably still have grown into a HW of todays standards

and i wasnt around during alis time to fully appreciate his reign and whether it was as good as it is remembered or not

[powerpuncher]

the biggest problem i have with the argument is that its such a huge myth that techniques now are better than they used to be. boxing is a finesse sport. you cant just think you are the biggest, baddest person in the room and then beat everyone at boxing. it doesnt work that way. joe louis proved that size doesnt matter by beating multiple people way bigger than him. i guess that i understand what strength is and isnt. read about jim jeffries in the late 1800s and eatly 1900s. he would work as a boiler maker all day then train after that. his daily routine would have definitely been too hard to handle for these fat and lazy HWs today. even stories of his strength are amazing. there have always been strong people in the world. modern techniques dont change that fact.

did you know that shorter arms can give more leverage on a punch? that is why guys like marciano, frazier, and tyson could hit so hard. punching power is a technique that has been around forever. there isnt any greater advancement on that than there has been for decades. i just dont understand why these fighters now would hit so much harder than the fighters in the past. there is absolutely no evidence to prove it.

holyfield came up from cruiserweight and could KO some of his opponents and could take their punches. yet, all of the fighters older than the 90's that were the size of holyfield couldnt do the same? it just doesnt make any sense. holyfield could not have been that much more advanced than a larry holmes. i mean, what is the difference between spinks beating holmes and holyfield beating all the HWs he beat? for holyfield, you would say that he was just good. for spinks, you say that it was because holmes was a bum compared to fighters now and lost to a cruiserweight.

i would be willing to change my mind if there was hard evidence. for example, if you could compare punching power or speed or strength. i just dont think that its possible though. and without that hard evidence, i cant believe that fighters today are just all around better.

[Max Power]

Well with your example of Holyfield that is easy to see. Holyfield was in fact the very first to incorporate a "modern training regime". His methods were considered radical, yet now they are common place. What's more when you look at Spinks, he was incredibly weak chin wise (Tyson KO1), as soon as he faced a puncher who could land on him properly unlike Conney he was finished. Except Holyfield has a thick solid heads and slabs of muscle. That's the difference, his chin is sound.

David Haye is an example of how modern training has enabled him to carry his power from CW up to HW!

As far as Holyfields power goes he was somewhat punch weak at HW and really wasn't a complete power puncher even at CW. His KOratio against HW's is something around 30 odd% which is telling and most of his KO's came in later rounds too.

Yeah shorter arms I believe can deliver more power "in closer" than a taller guy trying to throw shorter shots, it's the torque they can better generate, particularly in hooks and uppercuts. But the taller guys produce better power out long, especially with their straight shots. Since the outside game has become more important in modern boxing there is the reason why we are seeing more basketball sized boxers now.

Taking your Joe Louis analogy, that is a bit silly. Joe Louis was bigger than anything better and better than anything bigger. You see for a start, like Ali, Louis outweighed most of his opponents, over 80%! The ones who were larger like Buddy Baer, Ade Simon and Primo Carnera were absolute oafs! The Nicolay Valuevs of the 30's HW division except far smaller. Back in Louis's day there were no superheavyweights with the correct balance or skills. Today the big guys and the technicians are the same people! It is not easy to develop the balance and dexterity for boxing when you are 6'5"+ and 240lbs+, it requires maniacal training.

You keep calling modern opponents fat. Ali was fat, Holmes was fat, Foreman got fat, Frazier was chubby even in his "prime". Who is fat today? or recently at top level? Chris Arreola? He's getting fit again now. Sam Peter? Sure but when he fought Klit he was chiselled like a bodybuilder. Hell they even called Lennox Lewis fat when he came in 5lbs heavier than usual for his fight against Vitali! There is a massive exaggeration of the fat levels today which are frankly no worse than yesterday.

All pro boxers must train hard and long, otherwise they would get their head punched in.

[Master]

You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think fighters train harder now than in the past. The talent today is poor, they may have the size but they do not have the skill, heart and quality. of the champions in the past.

[Max Power]

Mate we can see the modern guys training on YouTube for Christ sake! It's you who live in a fantasy land.

Oh right so all other sportsmen and athletes train harder than ever but pro boxers can't be bothered training anymore and just eat cheeseburgers instead. Do you really believe what you are saying? That's one of the things you have been brainwashed to say by the old time nutbags with a vested interest in rubbishing the present and glorifying the past.

Today they really are "professional boxers". In the past they sometimes worked a days work and then hit the gym. Today, their job, from the time they get up to the time they go to bed it to train and prepare to fight. They have camps that completely systematise their training, sleep and diet to maximize their performance. If you think a bit of sparring after work, a few dozen rounds on the heavy bag, a skip and a jog and a dozen sets of push ups and situps are better than that you are crazy!

Yesterdays athletes were professional boxers in the sense that they received payment for their fights and at top level they may not have worked (depending on how far back you go). But they were not "professional athletes" as we would describe them today.

Look at a football player from 1970, skinny, a bit of a pot belly, maybe even smoking a cigarette at half time instead of eating an orange. It's the same analogy with boxing. It's a joke!

There's no comparison between the skills of today and those of yesterday. Wladimir and Floyd show dominance the world has never seen before, like Lewis and Oscar before them.

And the best is yet to come I'm sure of it!

[ruthless rocco]

Smoke some more crack with your buddy Rob Ford @Max Power

P4P the old fighters would wipe the floor with the fat assed steroid using new ones!