Felix Verdejo

[TitoFan]

You say Alvarez fought bums in his first 15-20 fights. Ok. Who the fuck was he suppose to be fighting as a 15, 16 year old?

No... obviously you can't expect a 15-16 year old to be fighting seasoned pros, at least those with winning records. But by the same token, it's unfair to just compare wins and losses between some like Canelo, and someone who has been brought along the "normal" way.

Who was Verdejo fighting at that stage in his career? Pro bums? No. He was fighting junior high and high school kids.

No. Because Verdejo has not gotten to that stage in his career yet. Verdejo has 9 pro fights. By the time he gets to the 15-20 fight range, I would fully expect him to be fighting good, seasoned pros.


Some fighters get brought along at a faster pace than others. Should their records be stacked against one another simply on the basis of wins and losses? No.

You know I've always criticized some things about De La Hoya. But one thing I'll give him huge credit for is the quality of opposition he faced soon after turning pro. In his 14th pro fight, he was facing Jorge Paez for a version of the lightweight title. De La Hoya finished with a record of 39-6, which looked at strictly in terms of numbers may not seem like much. But the quality of opposition was good from damn near the beginning.

And yeah... Oscar had well over 200 amateur fights. So what? It still deceptively bloats the pro record of a fighter to have faced 40 bums in his first 40 fights, and be hyped up to be something he's not. Look at Deontay Wilder. He may be the next HW champion...... he may not. But we'll never know exactly how good he is, or CAN be, until he starts facing credible opponents.

Apples to apples.... is all I'm saying.

[Violent Demise]

You say Alvarez fought bums in his first 15-20 fights. Ok. Who the fuck was he suppose to be fighting as a 15, 16 year old?

No... obviously you can't expect a 15-16 year old to be fighting seasoned pros, at least those with winning records. But by the same token, it's unfair to just compare wins and losses between some like Canelo, and someone who has been brought along the "normal" way.

Who was Verdejo fighting at that stage in his career? Pro bums? No. He was fighting junior high and high school kids.

No. Because Verdejo has not gotten to that stage in his career yet. Verdejo has 9 pro fights. By the time he gets to the 15-20 fight range, I would fully expect him to be fighting good, seasoned pros.


Some fighters get brought along at a faster pace than others. Should their records be stacked against one another simply on the basis of wins and losses? No.

You know I've always criticized some things about De La Hoya. But one thing I'll give him huge credit for is the quality of opposition he faced soon after turning pro. In his 14th pro fight, he was facing Jorge Paez for a version of the lightweight title. De La Hoya finished with a record of 39-6, which looked at strictly in terms of numbers may not seem like much. But the quality of opposition was good from damn near the beginning.

And yeah... Oscar had well over 200 amateur fights. So what? It still deceptively bloats the pro record of a fighter to have faced 40 bums in his first 40 fights, and be hyped up to be something he's not. Look at Deontay Wilder. He may be the next HW champion...... he may not. But we'll never know exactly how good he is, or CAN be, until he starts facing credible opponents.

Apples to apples.... is all I'm saying.

I'm talking about Verdejo as a 15, 16 year old. He was an amateur fighting other amateurs. Alvarez early fights were pretty much on the job training.

[TitoFan]

You say Alvarez fought bums in his first 15-20 fights. Ok. Who the fuck was he suppose to be fighting as a 15, 16 year old?

No... obviously you can't expect a 15-16 year old to be fighting seasoned pros, at least those with winning records. But by the same token, it's unfair to just compare wins and losses between some like Canelo, and someone who has been brought along the "normal" way.

Who was Verdejo fighting at that stage in his career? Pro bums? No. He was fighting junior high and high school kids.

No. Because Verdejo has not gotten to that stage in his career yet. Verdejo has 9 pro fights. By the time he gets to the 15-20 fight range, I would fully expect him to be fighting good, seasoned pros.


Some fighters get brought along at a faster pace than others. Should their records be stacked against one another simply on the basis of wins and losses? No.

You know I've always criticized some things about De La Hoya. But one thing I'll give him huge credit for is the quality of opposition he faced soon after turning pro. In his 14th pro fight, he was facing Jorge Paez for a version of the lightweight title. De La Hoya finished with a record of 39-6, which looked at strictly in terms of numbers may not seem like much. But the quality of opposition was good from damn near the beginning.

And yeah... Oscar had well over 200 amateur fights. So what? It still deceptively bloats the pro record of a fighter to have faced 40 bums in his first 40 fights, and be hyped up to be something he's not. Look at Deontay Wilder. He may be the next HW champion...... he may not. But we'll never know exactly how good he is, or CAN be, until he starts facing credible opponents.

Apples to apples.... is all I'm saying.

I'm talking about Verdejo as a 15, 16 year old. He was an amateur fighting other amateurs. Alvarez early fights were pretty much on the job training.

I see the problem. You're intent on talking about ages, while I'm going on number of pro fights. I say you can't compare ages, precisely because not everyone turns pro at the same age. Some guys decide they like to box relatively late in life, and end up turning pro in their 20's. Obviously you can't compare someone like that with say, a Canelo.... based on age. But you said that Canelo's early fights were "on the job training." These are his early pro fights. So in a way it bloats the record in a way that makes it uncomparable to "normal" pro records, is all.

It's not a clear cut argument, and one I suppose can be argued both ways.

[Violent Demise]

You say Alvarez fought bums in his first 15-20 fights. Ok. Who the fuck was he suppose to be fighting as a 15, 16 year old?

No... obviously you can't expect a 15-16 year old to be fighting seasoned pros, at least those with winning records. But by the same token, it's unfair to just compare wins and losses between some like Canelo, and someone who has been brought along the "normal" way.

Who was Verdejo fighting at that stage in his career? Pro bums? No. He was fighting junior high and high school kids.

No. Because Verdejo has not gotten to that stage in his career yet. Verdejo has 9 pro fights. By the time he gets to the 15-20 fight range, I would fully expect him to be fighting good, seasoned pros.


Some fighters get brought along at a faster pace than others. Should their records be stacked against one another simply on the basis of wins and losses? No.

You know I've always criticized some things about De La Hoya. But one thing I'll give him huge credit for is the quality of opposition he faced soon after turning pro. In his 14th pro fight, he was facing Jorge Paez for a version of the lightweight title. De La Hoya finished with a record of 39-6, which looked at strictly in terms of numbers may not seem like much. But the quality of opposition was good from damn near the beginning.

And yeah... Oscar had well over 200 amateur fights. So what? It still deceptively bloats the pro record of a fighter to have faced 40 bums in his first 40 fights, and be hyped up to be something he's not. Look at Deontay Wilder. He may be the next HW champion...... he may not. But we'll never know exactly how good he is, or CAN be, until he starts facing credible opponents.

Apples to apples.... is all I'm saying.

I'm talking about Verdejo as a 15, 16 year old. He was an amateur fighting other amateurs. Alvarez early fights were pretty much on the job training.

I see the problem. You're intent on talking about ages, while I'm going on number of pro fights. I say you can't compare ages, precisely because not everyone turns pro at the same age. Some guys decide they like to box relatively late in life, and end up turning pro in their 20's. Obviously you can't compare someone like that with say, a Canelo.... based on age. But you said that Canelo's early fights were "on the job training." These are his early pro fights. So in a way it bloats the record in a way that makes it uncomparable to "normal" pro records, is all.

It's not a clear cut argument, and one I suppose can be argued both ways.

Put it this way if Verdejo would of turned pro at the same age Alvarez turned pro his early opposition would looked the same as Alvarez