Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!

[Dark Lord Al]

What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko called out 34-11 guy (who has lost 2 of his last 3 fights, including a loss to an opponent who was 11-2 and 191 lbs)?

What would happen if the next world championship opponent earned his title fight by beating three bums (6-8, 13-4, 16-27)?

What would happen if Vitali Klitschko decided to call out a 37-30 opponent (bum) for his next world championship fight?

What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko decided to stage a world championship against a 197 lbs boxer who had only 7 fights (of which only 2 had been real heavyweight fights 200×2)?

Or if Wladimir Klitschko decided to lose all his muscles, go all the way down to 197 lbs and then fight another 197 lbs opponent?

Or even go down to 185 lbs to stage a world championship against another 185 lbs (who never had and never will have a single real heavyweight fight 200×2)?

Exactly such opponents and circumstances HAPPENED and are USED AS A PROOF of the GREATNESS of past eras.

Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier all fought exactly such opponents in exactly such world championship fights.

Joe Louis vs Jim Braddock (197 lbs vs 197 lbs) (world heavyweight title 1937)
Joe Louis vs Tony Musto (37-30 whole career) (World heavyweight title 1941)
Joe Louis vs Billy Conn 174 lbs (Unification(!) world heavyweight title 1937)
Rocky Marciano 184 lbs vs Roland LaStarza 185 lbs (World heavyweight title 1953)
Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks 197 lbs, 7-0 at bout, 26-17 whole career (WBA+WBC world heavyweight title 197
Muhammad Ali vs George Chuvalo, 34-11 at bout, coming off a loss to a 11-2, 191 lbs guy (world heavyweight title 1966)
Joe Frazier vs Dave Zyglewicz, who earned his title fight by beating Pedro Sanchez (6-, Bob Felstein (13-4), Willie Johnson (16-27) and Levi Forte (18-19) (world heavyweight title 1969) Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks (26-17) 197 lbs (WBA world heavyweight title 197
or Muhammad Ali vs ·Henry Cooper (40-14) 188 lbs (World Heavyweight title 1966)
Larry Holmes vs Mike Weaver (41-1 202 lbs (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs Ossie Ocasio (23-13) (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs David Bey (18-11) (IBF heavyweight title 1985)

The same fans and experts who declare that "Joe Louis still holds the record for most heavyweight championships won" (which includes world title opponents like mentioned above) have no problems to declare that the current heavyweight division (which excludes such title opponents like mentioned above) is weak.

The same fans who complain about a "dire Klitschko era" have no problem to declare Ali's era to be "The golden Age", yet half of Ali's opponents wouldn't be allowed nowadays or would be a proof of how Klitschko sucks.

The same experts who calculated that "Rocky Marciano is the heavyweight champ with the highest KO'ratio" would turn away from the TV sets if Klitschko's KO victims would be a median 190 lbs.

The same fans who mention that "Rocky Marciano is the only heavyweight champ who retired undefeated (49-0)" would be very upset if Wladimir Klitschko chose 40 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers (200 lbs and below) or chose 49 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers, former cruisers and bums (yes, that's Marciano's record in a nutshell).

The same fans who measure Wladimir Klitschko against previous oh-so-great champs would be appalled if Wladimir Klitschko actually fought opponents like those champs fought.

-and-

It's a no-brainer that Joe Louis can hold such records because included in his 26 title wins are opponents like Billy Conn 174 lbs and bums like Tony Musto (37-30).

Now I'm not here to bag the old timers because it makes me feel good, and I know at 32 years of age I'm only a young whipper snapper compared to some of you guys who have followed boxing for twice that time and who's fathers may have been involved with or fans of Louis or his contemporary's for example. But when some of you put on your rose coloured glasses and poke fun at my era and it's fighters by making ridiculous comparisons with your favourites that really don't stand up to scrutiny well then it's time to face the facts. Those records were padded to high hell, and only some of them stand up to scrutiny!

25 defences says he has the best record , best HW of all time no , not for me , but Joe was class in and out of the ring , and he didn't dodge the draft unlike Clay , so he has my respect.

[Max Power]

I have great respect for Joe Louis too and think he is a great champion. He is still in the top 10 for title performance but as for "best HW record" not by a long shot.

[brocktonblockbust]

I have great respect for Joe Louis too and think he is a great champion. He is still in the top 10 for title performance but as for "best HW record" not by a long shot.

hahaha. hahaha. ha-fucking-haha-

[Max Power]

Max Power's Heavyweight title championship Top 10 list

With Title wins and KO's listed.

Excluding BUMS and Cruiserweights and 2nd and 3rd tier champs!

1. Wladimir Klitschko - 17 (15 KOs)
2. Lennox Lewis - 15 (10 KOs)
3. Vitali Klitschko - 14 (11 KOs)
4. Larry Holmes - 13 (7 KOs)
5. Muhammad Ali - 13 (6 KOs)
6. Mike Tyson - 9 (8 KOs)
7. Evander Holyfield - 9 (3 KOs)
8. Joe Louis - 7 (4 KOs)
9. Nicolay Valuev - 6 (3 KOs)
10. Chris Byrd - 5 (1 KO)

This represents a fair comparison and even looks like it makes sense.

[brocktonblockbust]

Max Power's Heavyweight title championship Top 10 list

With Title wins and KO's listed.

Excluding BUMS and Cruiserweights and 2nd and 3rd tier champs!

1. Wladimir Klitschko - 17 (15 KOs)
2. Lennox Lewis - 15 (10 KOs)
3. Vitali Klitschko - 14 (11 KOs)
4. Larry Holmes - 13 (7 KOs)
5. Muhammad Ali - 13 (6 KOs)
6. Mike Tyson - 9 (8 KOs)
7. Evander Holyfield - 9 (3 KOs)
8. Joe Louis - 7 (4 KOs)
9. Nicolay Valuev - 6 (3 KOs)
10. Chris Byrd - 5 (1 KO)

This represents a fair comparison and even looks like it makes sense.

absolute dog shit ranking there. imagine a 32 year old nit wit ranking Chris Byrd and Nicolay Valuev ahead of Rocky Marciano, for just 1 example. Wladimir, Byrd and Valuev is just the proof of the pudding that you have absolutely no sense, no clue about this subject. YOu have the right to your own opinion, but so do I, and you have no clue.

[p4pking]

I'm just wondering how the hell he came up with 6 for Valuev

[powerpuncher]

if we are excluding bums then i say that wlad's record is 2-0 (1 KO). byrd is the only non bum that he has beaten and that is mainly because of styles.

[bradlee180]

25 Heavyweight Title Defenses.
Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World.
12 year reign.
The Great Joe Louis.

^ Best to watch that clip in full screen, so click settings wheel and change quality to 720p HD to watch Joe in all his destructive glory.

[brocktonblockbust]

fucking bone-breaking bone-shattering power. that is power in its purest form. the guy just gyrates the power from his torso. it is fucking frightening.

as for certain unnamed numbskulls, this will not be an indication of how The Bomber would annihilate the clitoris 1 and 2.

[Bo-Bo24]

I have great respect for Joe Louis too and think he is a great champion. He is still in the top 10 for title performance but as for "best HW record" not by a long shot.

Didn't you once say that Joe Lewis never fought a fighter as good as David Haye? And Muhammad Ali would only beat Mariusz Wach on points?

[Max Power]

Ok let's take a step back, this is not a "h2h" ranking necessarily. This is purely a record of their performance in title fights unpadded. The positioning is not representative necessarily of who was better than who per se.

i.e. Wladimir will edge Lennox out in most statistics because he does have a slightly higher KO ratio and he has half again as many fights, of course. I ranked purely by the numbers.