Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!

[powerpuncher]

going back to your original argument, the problem with basing things off of records is that boxing was a lot different back then in the aspect of making fights. most fighters were thrown to the wolves at the beginning of their boxing career. most people didnt have much of an amatuer background and learned as they fought and lost a lot because of that. now, people are always padding their record, a thing that didnt really exist back in the day other than maybe a few people who fought exclusively in their own country.

also, if we are just saying who hits hard, then just compare to damage being done. look at what the small dempsey did to willard who was way bigger than him. willard had more bones broken and was in far worse shape than anybody that the klits have beaten. as was quoted before, louis knocked peoples teeth through their mouthpiece. marciano had his power recorded and was seen that it had more energy than an armor piercing bullet and enough energy to amount to lifting 1000 pounds a foot off the ground. so all i have to say that if someone like haye could do something like that then im sure we would hear about it but we dont because he cant. plus, HWs used smaller gloves back then which means that they got used to withstanding punches better.

[Max Power]

You started making sense at the start but then you trailed off into delusion again.

At the end of the day there's no way physically possible Rocky Marciano could hit as hard as David Haye. The reason you don't here about that stuff now is because nobody would care about such things now. There's no point in being able to hit a pressure pad hard if you can't land it. Having said that though nobody would lay a dime on Marciano were they to both perform that test together to get a higher reading.

If you put David in against Marciano's or Louis's run of opponents, ALL of them, he would knock every single one of them out. Every one! And Wladimir and Vitali would too.

We're never gonna agree on this and I've stopped making such threads now so we can just leave it if you like.

[powerpuncher]

im not really sure how i trailed off into delusion with my facts...but whatever.

i just make points here and there on your threads when i have time. sometimes i dont really care to comment and sometimes i will. i dont think you are a bad poster because i have seen you post about other stuff that is about current boxing and you seem fine. you just have the idea in your head that training has come so far that todays boxers are just better. i know that you know that almost all people with boxing knowledge dont believe that so its up to you to believe what you want.

[Bo-Bo24]

You started making sense at the start but then you trailed off into delusion again.

At the end of the day there's no way physically possible Rocky Marciano could hit as hard as David Haye. The reason you don't here about that stuff now is because nobody would care about such things now. There's no point in being able to hit a pressure pad hard if you can't land it. Having said that though nobody would lay a dime on Marciano were they to both perform that test together to get a higher reading.

If you put David in against Marciano's or Louis's run of opponents, ALL of them, he would knock every single one of them out. Every one! And Wladimir and Vitali would too.

We're never gonna agree on this and I've stopped making such threads now so we can just leave it if you like.

Mate even Audley got up from David Hayes punches, don't overstate his power just because it appears to be his leading attribute in an age where everything is analysed to death

[Spicoli]

What good does power do you if you are not fully confident with it, sell out to use it, or for that matter even show up to the arena in the first place. Do you honestly think Marciano would have the mental cartwheels and doubts Haye has shown?! Marciano would climb out of his coffin and jump from the hearse before he would give.

[Max Power]

You guys have it wrong. You are now days clearly in the realm of what is describes as "old time nutbags". I think most sober ppl these days "WITH PLENTY OF BOXING KNOWLEDGE" would agree that the guys your talking about would be banged out in an easy nights work Mr. Powerpuncher.

And as for you Spicoli, I wonder why Haye might be more hesitant than Marciano appeared to be. Take a look at the guys Haye fought and then look at the guys Rocky did. Rest my case. And David Haye didn't have to risk as much regardless because he knew how to box, Marciano barely did.

I would like to see how confident Marciano would be were he to have fought Wladimir Klitschko instead of Haye, ha. We all know what would happen there. Rocky would be knocked out with the first connected jab. Fact!

Audley Harrison would have dominated the Marciano era. I'm positive of THAT!

[Max Power]

I have another test, which I've performed numerous times to my expected affect.

Take a woman, or a child or somebody else who knows nothing at all of boxing. Coach them not at all. Put them in front of an olden days championship fight, then put them in front of a modern championship fight, and ask them to honestly tell you which set looks better?

Almost all say the same thing. The old guys look weak, slow and unco. The new guys look fast, strong and crisp.

[bradlee180]

I have another test, which I've performed numerous times to my expected affect.

Take a woman, or a child or somebody else who knows nothing at all of boxing. Coach them not at all. Put them in front of an olden days championship fight, then put them in front of a modern championship fight, and ask them to honestly tell you which set looks better?

Almost all say the same thing. The old guys look weak, slow and unco. The new guys look fast, strong and crisp.

Could be the recording technology of the time.
Current Heavyweight Title holder Vitali Klitschko is the same physical size and fights virtually the exact same way as Big Jess Willard from about 100 years ago....





^ About 4:48 of the Willard clip for a better closeup of Big Jess...

[Beanz]

I have another test, which I've performed numerous times to my expected affect.

Take a woman, or a child or somebody else who knows nothing at all of boxing. Coach them not at all. Put them in front of an olden days championship fight, then put them in front of a modern championship fight, and ask them to honestly tell you which set looks better?

Almost all say the same thing. The old guys look weak, slow and unco. The new guys look fast, strong and crisp.

Ha! Really? Your dumb argument puts you firmly in the camp of the ignorant and ill informed. Enjoy your X Factor "talent" and the vacuous celebrity twit filled world that masquerades as ability. You are quite obviously not interested in rationality or a discussion and therefor are simply trolling. You are suggesting that people ignore trainers, boxers themselves and promoters, journalists etc with decades of first hand experience and entertain your own proposal simply because you are personally unable to understand conventional thought on what constitutes greatness in a boxer. You are accusing people of wearing rose tinted glasses whilst burying your own head in a hole.

[greynotsoold]

I have another test, which I've performed numerous times to my expected affect.

Take a woman, or a child or somebody else who knows nothing at all of boxing. Coach them not at all. Put them in front of an olden days championship fight, then put them in front of a modern championship fight, and ask them to honestly tell you which set looks better?

Almost all say the same thing. The old guys look weak, slow and unco. The new guys look fast, strong and crisp.

That is fucking irrelevant and you prove it yourself. You can watch David Haye, then watch Joe Louis, and pick Haye to stop Louis??
What do you know of punching technique? Of balance? Of fighting?
Your baiting grows tiresome.

[powerpuncher]

You guys have it wrong. You are now days clearly in the realm of what is describes as "old time nutbags". I think most sober ppl these days "WITH PLENTY OF BOXING KNOWLEDGE" would agree that the guys your talking about would be banged out in an easy nights work Mr. Powerpuncher.

And as for you Spicoli, I wonder why Haye might be more hesitant than Marciano appeared to be. Take a look at the guys Haye fought and then look at the guys Rocky did. Rest my case. And David Haye didn't have to risk as much regardless because he knew how to box, Marciano barely did.

I would like to see how confident Marciano would be were he to have fought Wladimir Klitschko instead of Haye, ha. We all know what would happen there. Rocky would be knocked out with the first connected jab. Fact!

Audley Harrison would have dominated the Marciano era. I'm positive of THAT!

can you find me any boxing historian or expert that thinks like you? thats an honest question because i would be very interested in finding someone that has studied boxing for a living and thinks that haye would beat louis. again, i understand on the internet it may sound sarcastic, but im serious. if you could find some sort of expert on boxing that agrees with you, i would love to see it.

[Max Power]

I am surrounded by people who discuss boxing current and serious all the time. And I assure you most guys would agree that Haye would destroy Louis. It could not really be otherwise, just look at them.

Boxing historians opinions are not worth a drop of piss in the dessert when it comes to these matters and I'm not sure these so called "experts" on such matters are more equipped to draw any conclusions than what I am.

I think you'll find there is a very large "status quo" in line with your thinking around the gyms and forums but you will also find that there is a very large and ever growing number of "realist" fans like myself who happen to study the fights and the facts and look at it purely for how it really is without bias and influence. That is what makes an "expert" not writing a "back in my day book".

Futhermore your opinions are predominant only in America, and to a lesser extent Britain, and are pretty much frowned upon elsewhere (in Europe and Australia) which is a coincidence since most of these guys you are trying to save are "good old American heroes".

What you have to understand is a lot of these "experts" are "expected" to make such claims, for the several obvious reasons why they would want to promote the glory of the past. And the worst of all is the "old time historian".

I can think of some and there are articles on the internet but let me present to you Evander Holyfield. He was "told" to say that his era couldn't hold a candle to previous but went against the script mid interview and said what he really though. Respectfully of course, but pretty much admitting that he'd have smashed Louis!

David Haye is virtually the slickest HW we've had to date. Some of the best reflexes ever seen. He has problems against hard punchers with great delivery skills.

Louis couldn't land shit on Haye that would be worth anything. Were they to fight today, Haye would dominate him and knock him out.

Any so called "expert" must know this. If they really do their research properly and really reach an alternate conclusion, then they are either no expert at all... Or they are lying!