Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!

[Max Power]

I have another test, which I've performed numerous times to my expected affect.

Take a woman, or a child or somebody else who knows nothing at all of boxing. Coach them not at all. Put them in front of an olden days championship fight, then put them in front of a modern championship fight, and ask them to honestly tell you which set looks better?

Almost all say the same thing. The old guys look weak, slow and unco. The new guys look fast, strong and crisp.

[bradlee180]

I have another test, which I've performed numerous times to my expected affect.

Take a woman, or a child or somebody else who knows nothing at all of boxing. Coach them not at all. Put them in front of an olden days championship fight, then put them in front of a modern championship fight, and ask them to honestly tell you which set looks better?

Almost all say the same thing. The old guys look weak, slow and unco. The new guys look fast, strong and crisp.

Could be the recording technology of the time.
Current Heavyweight Title holder Vitali Klitschko is the same physical size and fights virtually the exact same way as Big Jess Willard from about 100 years ago....





^ About 4:48 of the Willard clip for a better closeup of Big Jess...

[bradlee180]

Y'know, I pressed play on both of them at the same time, it's really quite remarkable just how similar Vitali Klitschko and Big Jess Willard fought.

They fight tall, both hands down at the waist, pawing with the jab, an occasional straight right, and tie up and hold whenever the man gets in close.

[Max Power]

Y'know, I pressed play on both of them at the same time, it's really quite remarkable just how similar Vitali Klitschko and Big Jess Willard fought.

They fight tall, both hands down at the waist, pawing with the jab, an occasional straight right, and tie up and hold whenever the man gets in close.

And another smart ass is born! LOL

I think I could find more fitting comparisons than that.

I guess you can find shit looking clips of fights in any era.

So much for that argument lol, well done Bradlee!... Asshole!

[bradlee180]

And another smart ass is born! LOL

I think I could find more fitting comparisons than that.

I guess you can find shit looking clips of fights in any era.

So much for that argument lol, well done Bradlee!... Asshole!

Gotcha !

[bradlee180]

[Beanz]

I have another test, which I've performed numerous times to my expected affect.

Take a woman, or a child or somebody else who knows nothing at all of boxing. Coach them not at all. Put them in front of an olden days championship fight, then put them in front of a modern championship fight, and ask them to honestly tell you which set looks better?

Almost all say the same thing. The old guys look weak, slow and unco. The new guys look fast, strong and crisp.

Ha! Really? Your dumb argument puts you firmly in the camp of the ignorant and ill informed. Enjoy your X Factor "talent" and the vacuous celebrity twit filled world that masquerades as ability. You are quite obviously not interested in rationality or a discussion and therefor are simply trolling. You are suggesting that people ignore trainers, boxers themselves and promoters, journalists etc with decades of first hand experience and entertain your own proposal simply because you are personally unable to understand conventional thought on what constitutes greatness in a boxer. You are accusing people of wearing rose tinted glasses whilst burying your own head in a hole.

[Max Power]

As a matter of fact Rocco, I presented facts, THE facts, that aren't changed and you couldn't handle them.

I did give up on trying to educate you, long ago.

But for some reason you keep popping up out of the woodwork for more and you can throw abuse all you want but at the end of the day... These so called "fat fucks" are still gonna kick your favourites asses!

By the way I'm married and have 1 month til the birth of my first child, going to be called by coincidence... Max! =P

So you should only have to put up with adversity for the next month then I'll be too busy to be argue and you can go back to your little fantasy land where Louis beats up todays HW division. But until then... He's a great champion in an ancient era.

[powerpuncher]

As a matter of fact Rocco, I presented facts, THE facts, that aren't changed and you couldn't handle them.

I did give up on trying to educate you, long ago.

But for some reason you keep popping up out of the woodwork for more and you can throw abuse all you want but at the end of the day... These so called "fat fucks" are still gonna kick your favourites asses!

By the way I'm married and have 1 month til the birth of my first child, going to be called by coincidence... Max! =P

So you should only have to put up with adversity for the next month then I'll be too busy to be argue and you can go back to your little fantasy land where Louis beats up todays HW division. But until then... He's a great champion in an ancient era.

i feel like you have presented some facts but your last few posts have just been random ranting about you knowing better than everybody with absolutely no facts. you said that you have talked to a lot of people who know boxing that would agree with you. i will tell you that i have not talked to anybody who knows boxing that would agree with you and thats a fact. that means that i have to just trust your word that your friends (or whoever you are talking to) know a lot about boxing and its history and also agree with you. its hard to trust that when i havent met anyone with your opinions. maybe you hang out with people like you though.

like i keep saying, if you cant trust "experts" or historians then i dont know what to tell you. they, along with many other people including myself, have seen many old fights and can clearly see that someone like joe louis was great and that david haye is just good. for example, if you watch 5 joe louis fights and 5 haye fights, i guarantee you that anybody who really knows boxing will be able to easily observe that louis has way more skill set than haye.

and did you live in the 30's? you are just assuming that people like galento and schmelling are bad boxers? schmelling was actually a very good fighter. galento was fat but wasnt as bad as most people think. he was actually very athletic and strong. he just didnt train hard. kind of like a lot of HWs today. the difference is that galento wasnt considered a top fighter like arreola.

[brocktonblockbust]

Joe Louis---26 consecutive title defenses. Holy Fuck!

cut the cock off of anyone who talks shit about The Bomber.

[Max Power]

What constitutes an "expert" to you? Many of us box, have boxed, train boxing, watch boxing, know boxing and analyse it all the time so aren't we the "experts".

It pisses me off when guys like you turn away from true facts to bring up a statement issued by a guy in a position of authority to support your argument when that statement in the first place was not backed up with anything solid to start.

At the end of the day perspectives are perspectives. But facts are also facts.
Where do you live? I know that nobody in their right bloody mind around any of the gyms in Adelaide SA thinks that Joe Louis would be anything but a punch bag in the modern HW division. They call him as I do a great champion in his day, who might do alright at CW today if he was modern trained.

It is easy to point out on film how lacking Louis is really compared to Haye. If I hadn't done this already many times I wouldn't be so confident about it.

And here you go again, comparing Galento to Arreola! Why cause Arreola was a bit fat too? He was never as fat as Galento and Galento not only didn't train, he drank a gallon of grog before his fights. Arreola is considered a top fighter because he IS a great fighter. Galento was pathetic, just fat and strong and nothing else and the fact that he was a top fighter in the 30's is ABSOLUTE PROOF AGAIN that the Louis era was a vey weak era!

Basically today, you are unable to be a bum and sub200lbs are forbidden..

The further you go back in time, the lighter the opponents get and the more bums are prevalent.

The 70's was about the point where the division was about half HW and half CW. And half the guys were bums.

Previous eras to that like Louis's were cruiser divisions MAINLY and were riddled with bums mainly!

And this can be shown statistically in the records. Is becoming the general consensus abroad. And in my opinion is supported by the film evidence (empirical) as well as the other forms. It is a fact!

[bradlee180]

What constitutes an "expert" to you?

Well, it's not you anyway, that's for damn sure!

[greynotsoold]

I have another test, which I've performed numerous times to my expected affect.

Take a woman, or a child or somebody else who knows nothing at all of boxing. Coach them not at all. Put them in front of an olden days championship fight, then put them in front of a modern championship fight, and ask them to honestly tell you which set looks better?

Almost all say the same thing. The old guys look weak, slow and unco. The new guys look fast, strong and crisp.

That is fucking irrelevant and you prove it yourself. You can watch David Haye, then watch Joe Louis, and pick Haye to stop Louis??
What do you know of punching technique? Of balance? Of fighting?
Your baiting grows tiresome.

[Max Power]

There are lots of pointless and idiotic statements issued by some posters here. But I would like to answer to one from powerpuncher that I found intriguing...

i used the CW example because you used it too. its a more extreme example. and im sure that arreola would admit that he would lose to ali. also, mike tyson has studied old fighters a ton and im sure that he would admit that some of the older fighters would beat him. i would be very surprised if he said that he was too good for all of them.

Arreola would know he could stop Ali. Any guy like Arreola seeing how Frazier managed to get Ali and trouble him knows that he would be far too much for him to handle. He's an inch taller and 30lbs heftier for a start. He is even more aggressive than Frazier with a much harder punch which he can throw in combinations too as opposed to Joe's single shots, has better footwork than Joe, is faster and has an excellent chin compared to Joe's glass one. Chris is brash and brutally honest and knows he would overwhelm Ali by comparison. And he is not dumb enough like Foreman to punch himself out.

Mike Tyson has gone on record before claiming that he thinks he could beat all that came before, as has Holyfield and even declares honestly that every fighter thinks they could have beaten the new guys once they retire but then goes on to admit that that probably isn't true because they are stronger and better trained today an have built on past experiences. He then mentions the Klitschko's are doing great.

But hey, what do the fighters know? Let's take the word of a sidelined historian from a bunch of years ago.

A quick look at Mike Tyson's physical presence, an assessment of his fights and style and attributes is evidence enough for me that none who came before Mike could have beaten Mike. No not Ali and not George either, or Liston and definitely not Frazier! lol

[Master]

Stop being selective about what Tyson says to suit your silly agenda.

Tyson also said that with no drugs, and just good hard training he essentially would wipe out the Klit brothers.