Originally Posted by
Gandalf
First off, I see classic deflection tactics being used by Greenbeanz. A deflection tactic is one used in an effort to cut off further dialogue. If someone makes a valid point then someone responds with 'I will break your arm', then that is clearly a deflection tactic. In this instance Greenbeanz is making the argument that because me and Brockton do not live in our respective home countries then we have no right to speak on these issues. It is a deflection tactic though as me and Brockton are connected with our home countries through family and history. Our countries are our countries and to suggest that we shouldn't comment is an outrageous one. 'But you don't live here, so keep your gob shut', says the wise one. Incredible.
Also, it is a daft argument to say that English people are simply lazy and that the immigrants are more educated than me and Brockton. To even teach overseas me and Brockton have needed to be university educated and to do what I do, you need post graduate qualifications. Maybe Brockton does too, but I haven't asked him. Now please show me the statistics on how many of these Polish immigrants are as educated as we are. Again, it is a silly argument as educated people are not going to the UK to earn what is typically minimum wage or do cash in hand jobs. I assume this was an argument made just to be a condescending git.
If there are tens of thousands of Americans and Australians running amok then they sould be kicked out! Again, I think it is a diversionary argument to suggest that these are 'acceptable immigrants' to the 'bigots'. I don't think people would be impressed if they knew they were there illegally and working cash in hand. Again, it is terrible for the local economy as they are not paying into the system.
In the past ten years. Funnily enough in the exact time span that I have been away, the entire demographics of the UK have been changing. Is it for the better or is it for the worse? The elite will say the better. Greenbeanz will argue for the better, but there has been no real national debate on the issue. Even now the politicians are just wanting to look tough knowing an election is round the corner. In some respects I think immigration is needed. Asylum is a valid reason. In years past the legacy of colonialism meant we had obligations whence Indian and Pakistani communities, but those days are gone and the Polish, Romanians, or Americans, have nothing to do with that legacy.
Every country of the world is founded upon immigration if taken further enough back in time. However, what we have today are nation states and those nation states have an obligation to their ethnic populations. You put them first. Instead what we have is a system where British people are not able to get jobs and it isn't because foreign people will work harder, it is because you can boss a foreign person around if you know that you can control them.
You can't get away with that with a native person. I've seen illegals here, you have them round your finger paying cash in hand. I've seen people with legit visas putting up with shit because they are on a temp visa and they will be out if they resist. It's easier to control a foreign worker who doesn't know the system and of course English bosses love the foreign labour. It's a masterstroke. Then if anyone resists saying 'This is all a bit crap, why not just pay the British workers a decent wage and follow the rules?'. That is because that is what it is all about!
You should control immigration. Not stop it, but control it and vet the system. Then ensure that workers are being protected and that everyone is paying into the system. Also the visa should be controlled, maybe 2 years max, but you will go home at the end. If you break the law, then you get deported and banned. You only stay beyond if you invest into the country AND marry. The UK is too slack on this, a few years in sees everyone becoming naturalised and in reality the number of foreigners is much worse. Legals, naturalised, illegals, it all adds up to a lot of competition for local people, who quite clearly cannot compete. Not because they are lazy like Greenbeanz says. That's one of the old chestnuts that they like to espouse.
I can see two very clear models having seen two sides of a coin. That makes me probably more aware of immigration models than Greenbeanz and likewise the same could be applied to Brockton who has experienced several countries. Instead Greenbeanz will try to divide opinion and make it look like we are the problem and he knows better. We see the coin from all sides having actually lived under different models. We just know which one makes more sense and are not afraid to be seen as non-PC koolaid drinkers.
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