Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!

[bradlee180]

What constitutes an "expert" to you?

Well, it's not you anyway, that's for damn sure!

[Max Power]

I think I make thoroughly reasonable assessments based on many forms of evidence and completely free of nationalist, racist, authoritarian and nostalgic bias. The 4 "evils" of boxing... sport... science.. and anything in life in general really.

I think that puts me on the playing field as much as any self-proclaimed "expert".

Most of these "experts" who make claims like "the modern HW division is weak" or "current boxers lack skills, are fat and out of shape" are not just flat out wrong or lying, they are guys who do not have to stand up against these guys in the ring... And fight them!

[powerpuncher]

I think I make thoroughly reasonable assessments based on many forms of evidence and completely free of nationalist, racist, authoritarian and nostalgic bias. The 4 "evils" of boxing... sport... science.. and anything in life in general really.

I think that puts me on the playing field as much as any self-proclaimed "expert".

Most of these "experts" who make claims like "the modern HW division is weak" or "current boxers lack skills, are fat and out of shape" are not just flat out wrong or lying, they are guys who do not have to stand up against these guys in the ring... And fight them!

thats exactly right. we all had a meeting without you and made a pact that we would lie about boxers from the past being good. and no, you are not in the playing field of people who have watched old fights live and have trained for many years at a high level. that is just an ignorant and arrogant statement.

[Max Power]

Funny you mention that because what professional boxer do you know today that would tell you he would get bashed up by his counterpart from 80 years ago? or 50? Not a great many, smashing that argument.

And the other class you mentioned, the codger who seen the old fights live. I have seen much of what I need on film... NOW. And don't you think a less analytical eye than my own, seeing something ringside where things are a little more difficult to perceive than on film in the first instance and cannot be replayed again and the memory of which will deteriorate with time, and then write about it, your telling me this type of historian is a reliable resource over solid evidence and statistical facts?

Your beliefs are akin to a religion, your sect of guys who believe this and pat each other on the back are like a church and your historians are like its preachers and you and your kind are like the parish sheep than listen to sermon.

And me and my kind are like Galileo or Bruno, I forget which one now, showing you all the world is round and can't understand why in light of overwhelming evidence you still can't let go of the idea that it's flat.

That's what I think!

[powerpuncher]

i would say that a lot of boxers would admit that they would lose to past fighters. now maybe ones with certain personalities like floyd may never admit it whether or not he truly believes it, but i would bet you that most cruisers today would admit that they lose to joe louis.

and again, dont you see that you are the only person that is looking at old fights and seeing all of these flaws? nobody else is other than your "friends" in texas. and dont pretend like you are like galileo and have some knowledge that nobody else does. galileo spent so many years researching the stars and planets. he was an expert in his field. but i guess by your logic, i am an expert in astronomy too because i say so.

[Max Power]

No, I consider myself as valid as any expert because I have put in the time and effort to learn and verify all the things I talk about. I don't NEED to rely on heresay. I can cross reference but I arm myself with my own knowledge.

In his day for example Gallileo was NOT regarded as correct by the church, only by his fellow scientists who seen also and knew he wad right. Some of these guys didn't want to speak up. These are analogous to the guys in the boxing world who agree but don't say so because the old time nutbags will shut them down.

But history shows that the nutbags always lose eventually. And every year you can see there is more of us and less of you and already the tables have turned.

I should judge by the end of the decade, most people will be realistic about boxing and nutbaggery will be a thing of the past!

I just want you to know that I DO in fact respect these past warriors. That gets lost arguing with you about it because it's necessary to break them to show the truth as you try to do to modern boxers.

But in their day, they were the champions and nothing can take that from them.

[Beanflicker]

If you're talking using a time machine and taking either Haye back or Louis forward, David Haye would decapitate Joe Louis.

Sport science and athleticism has come way too far. An athlete from the 30's isn't going to compete with a modern athlete. That's just silly. Take a look at the olympic records/times back in the 30s when Joe was in his prime and now.

But you can only judge a guy by how he competed in his particular time, and Joe had an incredible legacy. He fought a lot of guys that had no business in the ring with him, but he did fight and destroy a lot of A-quality fighters, so to me Joe deserves the highest honours.

One of the true greats for sure.

[powerpuncher]

No, I consider myself as valid as any expert because I have put in the time and effort to learn and verify all the things I talk about. I don't NEED to rely on heresay. I can cross reference but I arm myself with my own knowledge.

In his day for example Gallileo was NOT regarded as correct by the church, only by his fellow scientists who seen also and knew he wad right. Some of these guys didn't want to speak up. These are analogous to the guys in the boxing world who agree but don't say so because the old time nutbags will shut them down.

But history shows that the nutbags always lose eventually. And every year you can see there is more of us and less of you and already the tables have turned.

I should judge by the end of the decade, most people will be realistic about boxing and nutbaggery will be a thing of the past!

I just want you to know that I DO in fact respect these past warriors. That gets lost arguing with you about it because it's necessary to break them to show the truth as you try to do to modern boxers.

But in their day, they were the champions and nothing can take that from them.

you can consider yourself an expert but that doesnt count. i can read science books and consider myself an expert at science but it doesnt mean that i am. and comparing the galileo situation is completely different. that was a religious culture which was being compromised. i havent heard anybody switching sides as you claim. no more people than normal are saying that todays fighters would beat older fighters unless you are talking about random boxing fans who started to like boxing and have never seen older fights.

i have not met one person or read anybody on the internet that really knows their boxing history and has watched a lot of old fights that agree with you. not one. and no, i dont believe that you know that much about boxing history. you may know a little but not anywhere near a lot of people. i have put in many hours over years studying boxing and i still know nothing compared to some people. which brings us full circle as to why we are not experts in the sports.