Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!

[Max Power]

No, I consider myself as valid as any expert because I have put in the time and effort to learn and verify all the things I talk about. I don't NEED to rely on heresay. I can cross reference but I arm myself with my own knowledge.

In his day for example Gallileo was NOT regarded as correct by the church, only by his fellow scientists who seen also and knew he wad right. Some of these guys didn't want to speak up. These are analogous to the guys in the boxing world who agree but don't say so because the old time nutbags will shut them down.

But history shows that the nutbags always lose eventually. And every year you can see there is more of us and less of you and already the tables have turned.

I should judge by the end of the decade, most people will be realistic about boxing and nutbaggery will be a thing of the past!

I just want you to know that I DO in fact respect these past warriors. That gets lost arguing with you about it because it's necessary to break them to show the truth as you try to do to modern boxers.

But in their day, they were the champions and nothing can take that from them.

[Beanflicker]

If you're talking using a time machine and taking either Haye back or Louis forward, David Haye would decapitate Joe Louis.

Sport science and athleticism has come way too far. An athlete from the 30's isn't going to compete with a modern athlete. That's just silly. Take a look at the olympic records/times back in the 30s when Joe was in his prime and now.

But you can only judge a guy by how he competed in his particular time, and Joe had an incredible legacy. He fought a lot of guys that had no business in the ring with him, but he did fight and destroy a lot of A-quality fighters, so to me Joe deserves the highest honours.

One of the true greats for sure.

[Max Power]

i would say that a lot of boxers would admit that they would lose to past fighters. now maybe ones with certain personalities like floyd may never admit it whether or not he truly believes it, but i would bet you that most cruisers today would admit that they lose to joe louis.

Really. Let's ask Wladimir Klitschko how he thinks he would perform too against Muhammad Ali, or Chris Arreola, another brutally honest contender? Let's ask Mike Tyson or Evander Holyfield what he thinks of his honest chances vs Joe Louis? I know they will want to show respect. But I also know what their answer will be! And I like it how you singled out the CW's against Joe Louis, you were apparently hesitant to compare him to the HW's now

Beanflicker;

Yeah on your last part I said something similar above, because of have been so brash about this topic a lot of guys now obviously will have the idea that I hate the old timers and have no respect. That's simply not true. I definitely do. I love boxing and if it wasn't for great champions of the past we wouldn't HAVE boxing as it is. I believe as you have said that you should only judge a champions performance against the criteria of his day and in doing that.. OF COURSE Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali etc are some of the greatest champions to have ever lived.

I would never, have never, disputed that!

[ruthless rocco]

i would say that a lot of boxers would admit that they would lose to past fighters. now maybe ones with certain personalities like floyd may never admit it whether or not he truly believes it, but i would bet you that most cruisers today would admit that they lose to joe louis.

Really. Let's ask Wladimir Klitschko how he thinks he would perform too against Muhammad Ali, or Chris Arreola, another brutally honest contender? Let's ask Mike Tyson or Evander Holyfield what he thinks of his honest chances vs Joe Louis? I know they will want to show respect. But I also know what their answer will be! And I like it how you singled out the CW's against Joe Louis, you were apparently hesitant to compare him to the HW's now

Beanflicker;

Yeah on your last part I said something similar above, because of have been so brash about this topic a lot of guys now obviously will have the idea that I hate the old timers and have no respect. That's simply not true. I definitely do. I love boxing and if it wasn't for great champions of the past we wouldn't HAVE boxing as it is. I believe as you have said that you should only judge a champions performance against the criteria of his day and in doing that.. OF COURSE Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali etc are some of the greatest champions to have ever lived.

I would never, have never, disputed that!

P4P with equal nutrition, steroids and scientific training methods, the old fighters would WHOOP the ASSES of the new generation of heavyweights.

Just like Maidana did Broner.

They're cut from a different cloth!

[Max Power]

lb for lb, steroid for steroid, training for training whatever. That is not what this is about. It's about how they IN FACT WERE.

You MAY or MAY NOT be right there but that is a purely subjective thing to assess and if that could be the case those guys would all BE just like modern fighters, they would not BE who they were then!

Your statement is, at it's core... Utterly ridiculous.

And just what the hell has Maidana vs Broner got to do with this topic?

Maidana and Broner might be cut from a different cloth. Yeah that may be true, I'll throw you that bone, Broner shoots his mouth beyond his ability and Maidana prefers to let his fists decide those matters first. Good for Maidana there. But he is just as "modern" as Broner is. He's no throw back.

[ruthless rocco]

lb for lb, steroid for steroid, training for training whatever. That is not what this is about. It's about how they IN FACT WERE.

You MAY or MAY NOT be right there but that is a purely subjective thing to assess and if that could be the case those guys would all BE just like modern fighters, they would not BE who they were then!

Your statement is, at it's core... Utterly ridiculous.

And just what the hell has Maidana vs Broner got to do with this topic?

Maidana and Broner might be cut from a different cloth. Yeah that may be true, I'll throw you that bone, Broner shoots his mouth beyond his ability and Maidana prefers to let his fists decide those matters first. Good for Maidana there. But he is just as "modern" as Broner is. He's no throw back.

@Max Power ... you don't even understand what i wrote. You're symptomatic of a type of person who takes only what he wants from a conversation or set of ideas and then warps it to suit their own interests. I feel bad for your future children....and your baby's mama.

P4P given all the advantages that the current fighters have the forefathers of the sport would have DESTROYED your precious & heartless fat boys of today. FACT!

[powerpuncher]

i would say that a lot of boxers would admit that they would lose to past fighters. now maybe ones with certain personalities like floyd may never admit it whether or not he truly believes it, but i would bet you that most cruisers today would admit that they lose to joe louis.

Really. Let's ask Wladimir Klitschko how he thinks he would perform too against Muhammad Ali, or Chris Arreola, another brutally honest contender? Let's ask Mike Tyson or Evander Holyfield what he thinks of his honest chances vs Joe Louis? I know they will want to show respect. But I also know what their answer will be! And I like it how you singled out the CW's against Joe Louis, you were apparently hesitant to compare him to the HW's now

i used the CW example because you used it too. its a more extreme example. and im sure that arreola would admit that he would lose to ali. also, mike tyson has studied old fighters a ton and im sure that he would admit that some of the older fighters would beat him. i would be very surprised if he said that he was too good for all of them.

im not sure why some people are arguing with you and calling you dumb though because it seems that some agree with you on here that without modern techniques and training that older fighters couldnt beat current fighters. if you agree with that then im not sure why anybody is arguing with you because i understand that thats your whole argument.

[powerpuncher]

No, I consider myself as valid as any expert because I have put in the time and effort to learn and verify all the things I talk about. I don't NEED to rely on heresay. I can cross reference but I arm myself with my own knowledge.

In his day for example Gallileo was NOT regarded as correct by the church, only by his fellow scientists who seen also and knew he wad right. Some of these guys didn't want to speak up. These are analogous to the guys in the boxing world who agree but don't say so because the old time nutbags will shut them down.

But history shows that the nutbags always lose eventually. And every year you can see there is more of us and less of you and already the tables have turned.

I should judge by the end of the decade, most people will be realistic about boxing and nutbaggery will be a thing of the past!

I just want you to know that I DO in fact respect these past warriors. That gets lost arguing with you about it because it's necessary to break them to show the truth as you try to do to modern boxers.

But in their day, they were the champions and nothing can take that from them.

you can consider yourself an expert but that doesnt count. i can read science books and consider myself an expert at science but it doesnt mean that i am. and comparing the galileo situation is completely different. that was a religious culture which was being compromised. i havent heard anybody switching sides as you claim. no more people than normal are saying that todays fighters would beat older fighters unless you are talking about random boxing fans who started to like boxing and have never seen older fights.

i have not met one person or read anybody on the internet that really knows their boxing history and has watched a lot of old fights that agree with you. not one. and no, i dont believe that you know that much about boxing history. you may know a little but not anywhere near a lot of people. i have put in many hours over years studying boxing and i still know nothing compared to some people. which brings us full circle as to why we are not experts in the sports.