Sam Peter: Anybody?

[Beanflicker]

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

Very nice, the "I know you are but what am I" defence. Classic stuff.

You won't answer my question about Ali: if Wlad's holding has allowed him to achieve much more in boxing than he would have otherwise, the same go for Ali, who also applied the technique of excessive holding?

[erics44]

ha

another attack that has nothing to do with the content of the discussion, ive backed myself into a corner now have I?

its you who sound like you have no way out

Very nice, the "I know you are but what am I" defence. Classic stuff.

You won't answer my question about Ali: if Wlad's holding has allowed him to achieve much more in boxing than he would have otherwise, the same go for Ali, who also applied the technique of excessive holding?

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once

[Beanflicker]

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once

You've labelled yourself as a hater, why shouldn't I refer to you as such? If you labeled yourself as a vegetarian, a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Libertarian, a communist, a conservative, a liberal, or any other label you can think of, would I be wrong to refer to you as something you freely labelled yourself as?

You "explained" why Ali's holding and Wlad's holding are different, but the reasons you gave are factually inaccurate.

Wlad holds more than he punches? You honestly believe that there is a Wlad fight where the number of clinches exceeded the number of punches he threw?

And you also say it's different because although Ali clinched a lot, he didn't "lean" on guys like Wlad does. That's also factually inaccurate. Ali would tie guys up with one arm, and use the other arm to pull down hard on the opponent's head, causing stress and fatigue on the neck and back of the opponent. This was a claim made by several opponents (including Frazier and George Chuvalo). Ask anybody that trains muay thai how tiring being in the muay thai clinch is (which is essentially what Ali did to opponents).

So no, you haven't answered my question sufficiently.

[Beanflicker]

I'm not asking you to change your opinion on Wlad, I'm just asking you to grow a pair of nuts and call out Muhammad Ali because he did the exact same shit.

[Beanflicker]

I'm rewatching Haye/Wlad now for the hell of it. After 4 rounds, the clinch total is…

-3 clinches.
-1 clinch attempt that was abandoned, so let's call it 1/2 a clinch.

So right now Wlad is averaging less than 1 clinch per round, but yet he's won 3 out of the 4 rounds on Harold's scorecard.

If he isn't winning them by clinching, what is he winning them doing?

[erics44]

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once

You've labelled yourself as a hater, why shouldn't I refer to you as such? If you labeled yourself as a vegetarian, a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Libertarian, a communist, a conservative, a liberal, or any other label you can think of, would I be wrong to refer to you as something you freely labelled yourself as?

You "explained" why Ali's holding and Wlad's holding are different, but the reasons you gave are factually inaccurate.

Wlad holds more than he punches? You honestly believe that there is a Wlad fight where the number of clinches exceeded the number of punches he threw?

And you also say it's different because although Ali clinched a lot, he didn't "lean" on guys like Wlad does. That's also factually inaccurate. Ali would tie guys up with one arm, and use the other arm to pull down hard on the opponent's head, causing stress and fatigue on the neck and back of the opponent. This was a claim made by several opponents (including Frazier and George Chuvalo). Ask anybody that trains muay thai how tiring being in the muay thai clinch is (which is essentially what Ali did to opponents).

So no, you haven't answered my question sufficiently.

you called me a hater several times before I tried to deflect your approach to this discussion from this focus, I fully admit don't like wlad klits reign (hate is a very strong word), is your whole argument based on you thinking I hate wlad klit?

why is what I said about alis grapple and wlads clinch factually inaccurate?

round 1 v sam peter 2 (a fight a big fan of klits highlighted as a boxing lesson) wlad klit held more than he threw meaningful punches (obviously a matter of opinion), over the course of a fight he probably punches more than he holds but the ratio is by far the closest out of every other significant fighter in history by miles and miles

I didn't say ali clinched a lot, nor did I say the only difference was that there was leaning involved, so possibly someone saying that might or might not have said something that is factually inaccurate I don't know

[Beanflicker]

you called me a hater several times before I tried to deflect your approach to this discussion from this focus, I fully admit don't like wlad klits reign (hate is a very strong word), is your whole argument based on you thinking I hate wlad klit?

why is what I said about alis grapple and wlads clinch factually inaccurate?

round 1 v sam peter 2 (a fight a big fan of klits highlighted as a boxing lesson) wlad klit held more than he threw meaningful punches (obviously a matter of opinion), over the course of a fight he probably punches more than he holds but the ratio is by far the closest out of every other significant fighter in history by miles and miles

I didn't say ali clinched a lot, nor did I say the only difference was that there was leaning involved, so possibly someone saying that might or might not have said something that is factually inaccurate I don't know

I've posted many points to my argument. Me calling you a hater is actually a good thing, because what I'm saying is essentially your bias against Wlad is skewing your opinion. The other alternative is that you're stupid and you don't know much about boxing. I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former.

It's factually inaccurate because you told me that Wlad leans more. I told you that's not the case and backed it up with the opinions of guys who actually fought Ali and complained about it (Chuvalo and Frazier).

You've avoided questions I've asked. I'd be interested in knowing how Wlad managed to win the majority of the rounds vs Haye by averaging essentially 1 clinch per round?

[El Kabong]

if you're so worried about cheating then why wouldn't you talk about Frank Bruno and his illicit drug use? Or does that not fit your agenda?

[Master]

if you're so worried about cheating then why wouldn't you talk about Frank Bruno and his illicit drug use? Or does that not fit your agenda?

What did Bruno take?

[erics44]

you called me a hater several times before I tried to deflect your approach to this discussion from this focus, I fully admit don't like wlad klits reign (hate is a very strong word), is your whole argument based on you thinking I hate wlad klit?

why is what I said about alis grapple and wlads clinch factually inaccurate?

round 1 v sam peter 2 (a fight a big fan of klits highlighted as a boxing lesson) wlad klit held more than he threw meaningful punches (obviously a matter of opinion), over the course of a fight he probably punches more than he holds but the ratio is by far the closest out of every other significant fighter in history by miles and miles

I didn't say ali clinched a lot, nor did I say the only difference was that there was leaning involved, so possibly someone saying that might or might not have said something that is factually inaccurate I don't know

I've posted many points to my argument. Me calling you a hater is actually a good thing, because what I'm saying is essentially your bias against Wlad is skewing your opinion. The other alternative is that you're stupid and you don't know much about boxing. I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former.

It's factually inaccurate because you told me that Wlad leans more. I told you that's not the case and backed it up with the opinions of guys who actually fought Ali and complained about it (Chuvalo and Frazier).

You've avoided questions I've asked. I'd be interested in knowing how Wlad managed to win the majority of the rounds vs Haye by averaging essentially 1 clinch per round?

mate its getting funnier, its gone from the hater to the don't know much about boxing, now common?

I haven't avoided any questions you have asked, which ones?

Ali leant as much as wlad does?

bit of boxing knowledge for you Eubank explained in an interview about how he beat benn because benn was too emotionally involved in the fight

I am winning this debate as you are to emotionally involved