over trained

[Vendettos]

I disagree that you can overtrain.

You can however underrest, they sound similar but they are not.

You can't over train because your body won't let you, you can train a exact amount based on your energy intake and general health, stamina, strength, etc.

It's the lack of rest that would be the issue, for instance.

Unrealistic
Energy 100%
Mon - Gym day - 80%
Tue - Gym day - 60%
Wed - Gym day - 40%
Thur - Rest day - 100%

Realistic
Energy 100%
Mon - Gym day - 83%
Tue - Gym day - 57%
Wed - Gym day - 20%
Thur - Rest day - 75%

It's this type of non linear statistic that can ruin a muscle or fool you into feeling fit as a fiddle, as it is a fact that people believe in a 2/1 or 3/1 ratio. They believe that if they train 3 or 2 days then 1 EXACT day of rest is enough, which simply is rarely the case. You don't decrease by exactly 20% a day for 3 days at the gym, then back to 100% after 1 rest day.

As for fighters who make the kind of money Kessler made against Froch in the second fight, they should be much more aware and should have the type of team around them who can judge these things.

I believe Kessler was tired and did gas out, but most use it purely as an excuse.

[cambay411]

I disagree that you can overtrain.

You can however underrest, they sound similar but they are not.

You can't over train because your body won't let you, you can train a exact amount based on your energy intake and general health, stamina, strength, etc.

It's the lack of rest that would be the issue, for instance.

Unrealistic
Energy 100%
Mon - Gym day - 80%
Tue - Gym day - 60%
Wed - Gym day - 40%
Thur - Rest day - 100%

Realistic
Energy 100%
Mon - Gym day - 83%
Tue - Gym day - 57%
Wed - Gym day - 20%
Thur - Rest day - 75%

It's this type of non linear statistic that can ruin a muscle or fool you into feeling fit as a fiddle, as it is a fact that people believe in a 2/1 or 3/1 ratio. They believe that if they train 3 or 2 days then 1 EXACT day of rest is enough, which simply is rarely the case. You don't decrease by exactly 20% a day for 3 days at the gym, then back to 100% after 1 rest day.

As for fighters who make the kind of money Kessler made against Froch in the second fight, they should be much more aware and should have the type of team around them who can judge these things.

I believe Kessler was tired and did gas out, but most use it purely as an excuse.

Good post Vendettos and your exactly right.


However you can definitely over train and it is different than what your describing above.


The effects of over training are more profound and takes longer to recover from. I would say over training occurs from consistant under resting.


When your under rested you can take a few days off and jump back in like you never left off. You easily get back to intense, full work outs that your used to.


If your over trained you can get rested up but when you jump back in its like your starting all over. You will still wont go as many rounds as you want and you have to build back up. All the gains you thought you were getting while over training were actually losses.

[IamInuit]

I do not believe in the concept that a fighter can over train and become stale. A fit and active fighter is better than a fighter who is peaking for a fight. Show me a fighter who says they over trained and I show you someone who has just lost.

Its a fine line imo. I think the guys that are actually effected by it never use it as an excuse. One of my favourite fighters Ricky Hatton at times looked flat or sluggish like he left his best performance at the gym. Now in his case as everyone knows he really went humpty dumpty in between fights. So in a way I dont see how he was able to yoyo like that w/o over training. He had to overdue it. No pain, no gain. I dont recall Ricky ever using it as an excuse.

I think people can confuse over training with those who are forced to rip and tear to make the scales because they have no business fighting there. So by that, many, many "overtrain". Many of those and in many cases have issues with re hydration. We all metabolize differently and some of those subtle differences at times have more then a subtle effect. Some have mastered the process and get it down to a science until their body refuses to cooperate as they age. Morales is a great example of this when he fought at 122. I remember my jaw dropping on several occasions because he looked like rice paper covering a skeleton. Then at fight time, he looked like a full fitted lightweight or close to it and proceeded.

So in that sense I suppose everybody is over training so its illogical to attempt to use it as an excuse knowing full well that over training per say is part of the job description.

Take the Oscar/Manny scenario. Oscar never over-trained.He simply provided more evidence of the stupid gene.Not to be undone, Chad Dawson years later decided to attempt to one up him. Oscar had not made welter in close to 10 years and had issues with the weight in the first Shane fight at the end of his prime. Its the reason the second fight was at 154.

A cocaine and watermelon diet may help you lose weight rapidly but it wont help you on fight night. Now I dont know if that's what he did but he did royally F-up. He made 145 and then only rehydrated 2 freakin pounds over 24 hours and it showed. They should have just nailed his feet to the floor and been done with it.

Yoyo weight's are a real problem and when it backfires on people "overtraining" is the go to term.