FBI suspected that Ali's KO of Liston was fixed

[Beanflicker]

I always believed Liston threw the fight. I never thought for a second that Ali had anything to do with it, or that he wouldn't have won again.

I don't believe in this phantom punch nonsense though. The punch DID land, it wasn't the hardest shot ever thrown but it was quick, landed directly on the chin, and Liston walked right into it.

I believe that Liston was legitimately dropped by that punch, but having planned to throw the fight coming in, decided to act more hurt than he was and take the full count.

[IamInuit]

I always believed Liston threw the fight. I never thought for a second that Ali had anything to do with it, or that he wouldn't have won again.

I don't believe in this phantom punch nonsense though. The punch DID land, it wasn't the hardest shot ever thrown but it was quick, landed directly on the chin, and Liston walked right into it.

I believe that Liston was legitimately dropped by that punch, but having planned to throw the fight coming in, decided to act more hurt than he was and take the full count.

First lol at the FBI. Why didn't they do anything about it? Probably half the planet thought it was a fix at the time and it has been part of boxing discussions for over 45 years. I mean really, pre knowledge of racketeering at that level and you do nothing?

I tend to agree that it was a tricky shot and looks can be deceiving.




Evaluate the punch for yourselves. What is it you both see and don't see? Ali was coming forward and over the top and from the angle of the gif appears to nail the sweet spot. Perhaps Liston said screw this and stayed down .

This could just as easily be described as a quit as a fix. Its almost to obvious a fix to be one.

[Beanflicker]

Well I think it discounts the notion that it was a "phantom punch": you can clearly see the shot land on Liston's jaw, and the force knock his head back.

Like I said, I have no doubt that the punch was enough to score a flash knockdown. Liston A) was moving his body into the punch, B) was turning his head into the punch, and C) didn't see the punch coming, and when those three criteria are met, the result is usually a knockdown or a knockout, even when the punch itself isn't a bomb. There is a lot of power added to even a low-powered shot when those criteria are met.

I think even the punch itself is underrated: clearly Ali's not sitting down on it or getting his body into it, but he does get a decent amount of snap from his shoulder into the punch at the end. Wasn't a huge blow, but it wasn't the light tap that most boxing fans make it out to be.

I don't think the punch knocked him out, though. Like I said, I think he was going to throw it going in, got dropped, and decided it would be much easier to just not get it up and embellish the punch. You can see he kinda goes down gingerly, reaching his arms out to break his fall, almost like he tripped on something. He seemed fully conscious until the mid count, then it looked like he suddenly decided he was very rocked.

[X]

we all seem to be talking about the 'phantom punch', which was the second fight.

Unless I'm missing something, the newspaper coverage is actually referring to the first fight??

[ray corso]

The punch was real and on the button. Watch a slow motion of it and you'll see Sonny leaning in with his chin far out in front of his feet. When the shot lands it shakes his body from his sholders to his sides on down! He got hit while leaning in and he got dropped, 100% legit!!
Now getting up is another thing!!!!!! HA!!! Ray.

As for the first fight Sonny quit on the stool after trying to cheat and getting his butt handed to him. He was never beat up like that before and was on his way to a tko loss when he quit! Look at his face if Ali wasn't beating him up the ref or or his seconds were! That was no fix the bookies didn't want to begin with, no believed in Ali to win and the ones that did made no bets.

[mrbig1]

I love Jersey Joe Walcott but he had his head straight up his ass. The count shouldn't have started with Ali standing over Liston. If Liston could take Williams bombs in two fight I know he could handle anything Ali could throw at him. The fact is Liston at his best could never have beaten Ali.