Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

[Max Power]

Max power is a joker. Ali's chin can not be disputed taking monster punchers like Foreman, Shavers and Frazier illustrates that. To call these guy weak punchers illustrates how mad you are.

Well you can carry on the believe that Master but I am definitely not joking.

Earnie Shavers was a hard puncher for CW's (KO ratio in the 90%ile)

Against real HW punchers his KO ratio is nothing special, 60%ile.

Against 233+ opponents, the average size of Wladimir's opponents, his KO ratio is non existent!

Plus he is virtually a bum, unco as and has virtually no wins against quality opponents! So we can conclude that Shaver's power was dangerous only to CW's and bums or both but not so much to anything approaching a modern HW. Not surprising since Shavers is about the size of a modern CW!

Let me clarify here, the 70's Ali, DID have a good chin, just not an "iron" chin. Te 60's version, the little guy, did not imo. It was chubby Ali of the 70's with the chin, not the lean athletic version.

As for Foreman, Ali did not TAKE bombs from Foreman. Show me the part of their fight where Foreman lands clean shots to Ali's head? You will struggle! Apparently Ali knew he was lucky here too because he ducked a rematch for the rest of his life!

That George is a hard puncher though is not in dispute.

As for Frazier, KO ratio 46% against 200+, already a featherfist. The size of an out of shape modern CW. What is more you can SEE how weak the punches were, just look at them and then compare them to a Wladimir right, a Lewis uppercut, a Tyson hook, and you can SEE the difference is staggering.

Ali could absorb a lot of punishment, only a fool would dispute that. Single hard shots were not imo his strong suit because except on rare occasions, he was never really subjected to them! Not his fault, it was his era!

Atleast if you want to rate a version of Muhammad Ali against the criteria of modern boxing, please PLEASE confine your comparisons to the heftier, smarter, 70's Ali who is concievably competitive, any promotion of 60's Ali who never once faced what we would describe today as a "decent opponent" is as outrageous as Louis beating Bowe!

[Mr140]

Listen most of the guys were over 200 pounds that not cw and i don't think weighing 230 makes your chin way better cant really buff up your chin. If that was true then Lewis and Wlad would not have been knocked that fuck out like they were man weight 210 to 220 with a well placed punch can end things.

[powerpuncher]

wlad has a better chin than ali? maxpower better quit while hes behind. your crazy claims are getting more insane by the post.

[Max Power]

wlad has a better chin than ali? maxpower better quit while hes behind. your crazy claims are getting more insane by the post.

But I'm not behind. I just made a common sense observation, that a massive square jawed boxer who has only been cold KO'd just once legitimately (in which there was a sandwich headbutt and he still finished on his feet after getting up several times) against the hardest punching division in history over 65 fights has a harder chin than a blown up CW with a pencil neck.

One of these guys was dropped by a 185lb boxer, one of them was not.

One of them faced and tasted power punchers from the career average of 235lbs with solid records.

And the other faced and tasted the power from career average of 200lbs with bummy records.

I can give examples where Wlad was whacked hard and either did not drop (Chag) or got up to win (Peter). Where are the analogues of this for Ali?

The correct description I think is that Ali had a great chin FOR HIS ERA, but would today be knocked out readily.

Wladimir today has a questionable chin but back in Ali's era would have been virtually indestructible.

[powerpuncher]

nope. you have never made a common sense post. your only argument is that wlad is better because he is better. i have already told you that there have been big HWs in the past but you call them oafs. yet if i call big HWs today oafs then you just say that im wrong. for example, joe louis fought abe simon (6'4), primo carnera (6'6), and buddy baer (6'6) and they were all modern HW weight. louis knocked them all out. but again, you just say that they are oafs because you have watched them fight but corrie sanders, who is actually smaller than all 3 of those guys, is faster than ali, and hits like a truck and we know this because he knocked out wlad so he must be really good even though he wasnt even thought to be a threat to wlad when they fought because sanders was viewed as an easy fight.

thats your common sense.

[Max Power]

nope. you have never made a common sense post. your only argument is that wlad is better because he is better. i have already told you that there have been big HWs in the past but you call them oafs. yet if i call big HWs today oafs then you just say that im wrong. for example, joe louis fought abe simon (6'4), primo carnera (6'6), and buddy baer (6'6) and they were all modern HW weight. louis knocked them all out. but again, you just say that they are oafs because you have watched them fight but corrie sanders, who is actually smaller than all 3 of those guys, is faster than ali, and hits like a truck and we know this because he knocked out wlad so he must be really good even though he wasnt even thought to be a threat to wlad when they fought because sanders was viewed as an easy fight.

thats your common sense.

s
Are you saying Sanders and Wlad were at the level of Louis's big opponents?

Because if that's what your reducing yourself to upholding then you might as well admit you are beaten.

[Mr140]

Well Since Ali was never even knocked out you really have nothing Max just a opinion which really is not that great because there is no facts to it. So what Ali was dropped a few times but never was iced and he was the size of Holyfeild another man that was never iced. Ali was about as tall as Sanders and weighed in between 215 and 225 which is not far off the people today. Wald been dropped more then any Heavyweight champion in history I believe. He lost to good top 10 contender in Sanders, a Journeyman Purrity and Brewster who was out boxed by guys Ali's size with shit records before knocking Wald the fuck out. I just think your nut hugging dude not even saying Ali would not lose fights but he has great chance with anyone yet again Mercer fucking out boxed Lewis i thing Ali can do the same.

[Max Power]

Listen most of the guys were over 200 pounds that not cw and i don't think weighing 230 makes your chin way better cant really buff up your chin. If that was true then Lewis and Wlad would not have been knocked that fuck out like they were man weight 210 to 220 with a well placed punch can end things.

Look I'm not saying that being very heavy automatically confers iron chin and power punching, of course that is not always the case. Valuev was not the hardest hitter, and Wlad definitely doesn't have the hardest chin. Conversely Tyson was a hard hitter and Holyfield did have an iron chin.

The point is though is that I'm not stating these "laws of boxing" if you will for individual circumstances, I am stating them as general principles that can be applied to all opponents across a boxers career. That the heftier the opponents are, the harder they hit and the harder the punch they can take! That is statistically and reasonably obvious!

Yeah sure I'm not denying that a 210-220lbs guy could KO a big man. Tyson obviously could.

Frazier and Ali did not. Shavers never did unless the opponent was either Bummy, or a glass jaw named Ken Norton.

McCall, Rahman and Sanders were the only cold KO's of Wlad and Lenny (Puritty was a gas and Brewster was an illness), and all 3 of them involved cracker punches the likes of which Ali never took or never could deliver.

Shavers might have produced a punch somewhere approaching the power of McCall (although I would argue otherwise) but he could never have delivered it on Wlad or Lenny.

One thing I want you to understand is that those old school "HW's" that weighed 200-210lbs, were what we would today consider CW's. Today's CW's undergo an artificial dehydration days before the fight to make weight and often put on as much as 15lbs before the actual fight.

So when I say that a CW fighter today would have been considered a HW back in Ali's day for instance, they in fact ARE real HW's at fight time even by todays standard!