Is this the worst era in HW boxing history?

[powerpuncher]

nope. you have never made a common sense post. your only argument is that wlad is better because he is better. i have already told you that there have been big HWs in the past but you call them oafs. yet if i call big HWs today oafs then you just say that im wrong. for example, joe louis fought abe simon (6'4), primo carnera (6'6), and buddy baer (6'6) and they were all modern HW weight. louis knocked them all out. but again, you just say that they are oafs because you have watched them fight but corrie sanders, who is actually smaller than all 3 of those guys, is faster than ali, and hits like a truck and we know this because he knocked out wlad so he must be really good even though he wasnt even thought to be a threat to wlad when they fought because sanders was viewed as an easy fight.

thats your common sense.

[Max Power]

nope. you have never made a common sense post. your only argument is that wlad is better because he is better. i have already told you that there have been big HWs in the past but you call them oafs. yet if i call big HWs today oafs then you just say that im wrong. for example, joe louis fought abe simon (6'4), primo carnera (6'6), and buddy baer (6'6) and they were all modern HW weight. louis knocked them all out. but again, you just say that they are oafs because you have watched them fight but corrie sanders, who is actually smaller than all 3 of those guys, is faster than ali, and hits like a truck and we know this because he knocked out wlad so he must be really good even though he wasnt even thought to be a threat to wlad when they fought because sanders was viewed as an easy fight.

thats your common sense.

s
Are you saying Sanders and Wlad were at the level of Louis's big opponents?

Because if that's what your reducing yourself to upholding then you might as well admit you are beaten.

[Mr140]

Well Since Ali was never even knocked out you really have nothing Max just a opinion which really is not that great because there is no facts to it. So what Ali was dropped a few times but never was iced and he was the size of Holyfeild another man that was never iced. Ali was about as tall as Sanders and weighed in between 215 and 225 which is not far off the people today. Wald been dropped more then any Heavyweight champion in history I believe. He lost to good top 10 contender in Sanders, a Journeyman Purrity and Brewster who was out boxed by guys Ali's size with shit records before knocking Wald the fuck out. I just think your nut hugging dude not even saying Ali would not lose fights but he has great chance with anyone yet again Mercer fucking out boxed Lewis i thing Ali can do the same.

[Max Power]

Look man, Ali was an inch taller than Holyfield and an inch shorter than Sanders. But he had neither the chin of Holyfield or the punch of Sanders (or the chin either).

Ali was at premium 212lbs. Anything you try to rate Ali above that rate much is a blown up version (i.e. he was fat and unathletic). Holyfield by comparison was in FACT 215-220lbs of solid muscle not a scrap of fart and supremely conditioned.

Incredible, you are trying to pass off one of the laziest trained boxers at those weights you extrapolate for him, even his own trainer made statements about the slovenliness of Ali, as the same size as Holyfield or natural HW's!

Now I know Holyfield is artificially pumped up to that weight. Were we discussing ethics here, sure I would agree with you, Holy should be a cruiser. But by todays standards, so should Ali!

You are wrong, Toney stopped Holyfield, Bowe knocked Holyfield out, testament to the power of one of the technical giants of the modern era.

And Ali was stopped by Holmes, a much superior boxer than Ali anyway!

Sure it was end of career. And you can say he was never KO'd any other and that makes him the best chin.

So I suppose by that logic then Floyd Mayweather has the hardest chin of all time too then right? Cause he was never KO'd.

Or for HW's I guess Marciano would also survive modern HW because he was never even beaten let alone KO'd?

You would like that!

But wait, then you also have to admit Vitali Klitschko and Nikolay Valuev to that magical un-KOable list too then because neither were they!

You see where we're headed? Obviously the POWER of punches across the era in question is a very important factor in remaining un-KOed.

[Master]

Your logic is silly. Ali was old when he was stopped by Larry. Floyd's career is not over. Valuev was not stopped but no one said he had a great chin. What are you on about?

[Mr140]

Ali was already having signs of Parkinson before fighting Holmes at almost the age of 39 what a pointless thing to point out his corner throw in the towel also i believe. Holyfeild Had hep b and Hart problems during the Bowe fight wasn't really iced was he. Bringing up fights when he was well in his 40's doesn't mean shit really your prime is gone at 40 not everyone is Hopkins. I won't bring up Wlads loses when he is in his 40's because it is point less he got knocked the fuck out when he was in prime body wise. He has not been knocked since but to be honest i don't think he fought a guy as good as Sanders since then. Chambers should be Cw, Eddie should be a CW, Peters fat blob in which he never should of had a hard time with, then he fought few ok contenders. Bryde is his best win yet again could very well been a CW. And has yet to fight Vitali which i know is his brother but hurts him because he was not the man for a lot of his reign because of his brother being champ how can you be a champ if dont fight the best. Not saying he should fight his brother but he doesn't even need to fight all the contenders because of his brother.

[FinitoElDinamita]

I also think 2014 has been the shittiest boxing year thus far in the past 10 years..

[Max Power]

Ali was already having signs of Parkinson before fighting Holmes at almost the age of 39 what a pointless thing to point out his corner throw in the towel also i believe. Holyfeild Had hep b and Hart problems during the Bowe fight wasn't really iced was he. Bringing up fights when he was well in his 40's doesn't mean shit really your prime is gone at 40 not everyone is Hopkins. I won't bring up Wlads loses when he is in his 40's because it is point less he got knocked the fuck out when he was in prime body wise. He has not been knocked since but to be honest i don't think he fought a guy as good as Sanders since then. Chambers should be Cw, Eddie should be a CW, Peters fat blob in which he never should of had a hard time with, then he fought few ok contenders. Bryde is his best win yet again could very well been a CW. And has yet to fight Vitali which i know is his brother but hurts him because he was not the man for a lot of his reign because of his brother being champ how can you be a champ if dont fight the best. Not saying he should fight his brother but he doesn't even need to fight all the contenders because of his brother.

David Haye was definitely his best opponent, Samuel Peter was a far more dangerous opponent than Joe Frazier! And so on.

Byrd was his best opponent, what drugs are you on. Byrd has not the firepower to trouble Wladimir or the style. Has had no chance of ever beating Wladimir under any circumstances ever just like Muihammad Ali!

The way you rate fighters man is all back to front! The weaker the boxer, the better they are in your eyes.

Another stupid statement "Sam Peter a fat blob" sure he got fat alright, but against Klit you could see his muscles ripping through. As opposed to pot bellied Frazier who you credit Ali with beating. Let me tell you, if you can see a 6-pack, the boxer is not fat!

I think I declared those reasons for Ali getting stopped already, the point I was trying to make was you can't claim Ali had an iron chin or a better chin than Wlad when he didn't have to fight anywhere near the number of hard punching bxers that Wlad did.

As for Wlad's opponents, we all know what would happen if we lined up Ali's opponents and gave that career list to Thompson, Peter, Haye, Povetkin, Rahman, Chagaev, Ibragimov etc. They would knock almost every single one of them out! Masters of escapology Chambers and Byrd would UD almost all of them and score appreciable KO rates too.

Jean Marc Mormeck would have been considered a 6-time HW champion back in Ali's day and was bigger and leaner than Ali, one of the heftiest non-bum opponentns Ali would have faced and only 1lb lighter than "big" George Foreman!

What for Wladimir was considered a complete mismatch would for Ali have been considered the greatest opponent he'd ever faced.

You also mentioned Chambers and Byrd were blown up cruisers, that's true, so was David Haye! I never said there was anything wrong with that but...

Chambers and Byrd relied on their elusiveness to "steal fights", the opposite of Ali's tactic of taking punches. Insisting on the 60's Ali that wasn't so easy to hit, that guy's style was reliant on his height and range advantage to land which at 6'3" tall is today mediocre and weight advntage to command respect which today would be reversed. Byrd and Chambers were elusive rrespective of size.

As for Haye, tht's interesting because they were the same size. Except Haye is mega-ripped at that weight ad Ali is not (still fit but). Haye is faster and has better reflexes than Ali ever did and his upper body movement allows him to evade piunches from "bigger" opponents unlike Ali who relied only on "running away" from his opponents to win. And of course Hye had a cracker punch where as Ali could not punch through the surface tension of water. I can't see Ali surviving many rounds at all against Haye.