Harry Greb and Weightlifting

[Andre]

Of course. I mean why say anything good about anyone prior to the primedonna era?

That statement had nothing to do with era vs era quality. It's a shame you seem to have a stick up your ass about the golden era and have to make everything a comparison.

The fact is, there's not enough quality opponents for ANYBODY of ANY ERA to fight one quality guys once a week.

Look at Greb's record: for every quality opponent, there are about 20 opponents who have losing records, or even less than 10 fights.

Tom Burns: 1-5
Ray Nelson: 0-1
Frankie Ritz: 1-3
Johnny Papke: 2-3
Billy Briton: 14-8
Soldier Buck: 8-11
Jim Nuss: 10-7
Otis Bryant: 3-4
Ed Smith: 1-1
Joe Lohman: 14-20
Fay Keiser: 21-13

That's just from a quick scan of the first page of his record. And these were guys he fought AFTER he was world champ. He had over 80 pro fights and was fighting guys who were 0-1 and 1-5.

And I don't slag the guy for fighting bums: it was a different time, there was no PPV and big network deals, you fought as many times as you could because you needed the pay days, and if you could get paid to fight a severely out classed guys, you'd do it. It was the 1920s, you had to make a buck however you could. No disrespect to Greb whatsoever.

The guys I do slag are guys like you who gush over the fact that they fought so often, like that was a great accomplishment and somehow makes them superior to modern fighters. But if Floyd was to fight once a week with the same opposition, you and other like-minded people would call him a sissy for picking on bums.

Floyd is getting dissed because he chose to fight a fellow world champion who is 35-3 with a KO percentage over 80%, and you guys are gushing over this dude because he fought bums once a week? PLEASE.

You have a point, but theres the other side of the coin in those old times; a challenge was a challenge some of those tough bastards would try to FIGHT ALL COMERS and hop on trains across states to do it within the week.

Doesnt happen now and fights are not as long either,buts that ok dont have to get protective about it, because its impossible in these modern times in light of our law with rules and regulations.

Its just two different situations. Too many fighters these days there are literally millions of them all after the money day, so you cant fight all comers and all challenges,you cant skip weights and you cant fight till you drop instead of just 12 rounds max.

So why try to compare or make out one is better?

One thing is for sure that today with so many fighters around you have to pick a road through them all cheery picking is an art now. It still happened but the further you go back it was a rarer occurrence.

[powerpuncher]

[QUOTE=Andre;1240236][QUOTE=Beanflicker;1240096]

One thing is for sure that today with so many fighters around you have to pick a road through them all cheery picking is an art now. It still happened but the further you go back it was a rarer occurrence.

i think that this is the biggest thing for me. i understand that they arent fighting world beaters every fight but i still like the fact that they fought. i have always said that i would be fine with current world class fighters fighting lower opposition sometimes if they fought 10 times a year. the problem comes when you fight 2 times a year. that means that you dont have time to pick anybody but the best opponent possible for every fight.

[jon09]

I hear Greb went to the Philippines and stumbled across that Aside meth.

[Ron Swanson]

No surprise both sides take it too far.

Quantity isn't what's impressive. It's the quantity mixed with the quality. One side pretends the quantity is of more value than it is. The other side dismisses the quality.

The old timers were tough and were skilled. I propose the toughness is connected to natural food that is practically non-existant in this genetically altered processed age. And lack of the myriad of poisons that surround us now. Combine the lack of a constant barrage of poison with genuine struggles and toughness is a natural byproduct.

And todays fighters are more athletic. Every sport the fans argue "not in our sport because ...." but every single sport where you can measure the athletic prowess it shows in the numbers. Bigger, faster, stronger. Weightclasses only alter that they don't stop it. Bigger guys today have the grace of body control that smaller men had years past. There's an ascending slope athletically through every class.

We can't properly value old time/now. Sure it was hard to fight all the time, it's also hard to fight a guy that had 5 months to prepare just for you. What seems to get lost is both sides deserve the respect they've earned.

[Beanflicker]

The old timers were tough and were skilled. I propose the toughness is connected to natural food that is practically non-existant in this genetically altered processed age. And lack of the myriad of poisons that surround us now. Combine the lack of a constant barrage of poison with genuine struggles and toughness is a natural byproduct.

Natural food? NATURAL FOOD?? You think the food was of higher quality back then? And with all this fear mongering of "genetically altered" food, there's absolutely no accepted evidence that these foods are harmful. There's no way you actually believe that nonsense.

There were tough guys and pussies back then, and there are tough guys and pussies now.

There were elite guys and BUMS back then, there are elite guys and BUMS now.

A guy with a losing record was a BUM then, just like he's a BUM now.

If any of you think any different, you're kidding yourself.

The only big difference is that the commissions weren't as strict and they allowed a lot of horrible mismatches that would never be allowed today.

People want to talk about Floyd/Maidana being a mismatch. What if Floyd was fighting a guy who was 1-3? A guy who had a full time job working 40 hours or more a week and trained whenever he had some spare time? That's the reality of a lot of these guys that pad Greb's record.

[Beanflicker]

I'm not dismissing quality at all BTW. I think Gene Tunney and Battling Levinsky were very high quality opposition.

I'm just saying to these golden age knuckle heads: don't shit on Floyd for fighting Maidana and then come back and tell me how great Greb was because he fought a bum a week. Who cares? These guys with losing records were not of high quality. Quit lying to yourself.

[IamInuit]

No surprise both sides take it too far.

Quantity isn't what's impressive. It's the quantity mixed with the quality. One side pretends the quantity is of more value than it is. The other side dismisses the quality.

The old timers were tough and were skilled. I propose the toughness is connected to natural food that is practically non-existant in this genetically altered processed age. And lack of the myriad of poisons that surround us now. Combine the lack of a constant barrage of poison with genuine struggles and toughness is a natural byproduct.

And todays fighters are more athletic. Every sport the fans argue "not in our sport because ...." but every single sport where you can measure the athletic prowess it shows in the numbers. Bigger, faster, stronger. Weightclasses only alter that they don't stop it. Bigger guys today have the grace of body control that smaller men had years past. There's an ascending slope athletically through every class.

We can't properly value old time/now. Sure it was hard to fight all the time, it's also hard to fight a guy that had 5 months to prepare just for you. What seems to get lost is both sides deserve the respect they've earned.

Some do and some dont. I mean you actually have people suggesting or trying to that boxing is not watered down and yet dismiss guys from the past that fought once a week and got some loses. How does one even debate that? You cant because those making such myopic statements have closed the door for there own sake, not boxing. They treat boxing history and past greats like an old mans tale of walking 2 miles home up hill both ways with snow up to their knees. They wont acknowledge anything they haven't seen and yet ignore what they do see in the present tense. The whole thing is like some gigantic twisted straw man argument. its almost like theism vs atheism. I try my best to stay out of these threads because they always end up at the same place. Nowhere. But damn....

Even something as fundamental as athleticism is bent more then theories of time and space. Window dressing. The fancy gyms, the fancy tech, sculptured frames, nutrition, peds, sports science and they fight two divisions out of their weight class and outside of a handful of fighters are breathing through every orifice in their body by the start of the fifth rd. Taking rounds off to the point that after a few years they got enough time saved to take a 2 week holiday. People stand straight up more then they ever have and step back in the position with their lead hand more today then at anytime in history. Or lets say since I have watched boxing since the sixties. All of this manufactured enlightened technique is a crock. I watch more boxing most likely then anyone else on this forum and I have never seen fighters go the wrong way as I weekly witness today. It makes no difference to me how good the production is, how many people are there or how these people look in the gym or fighting against no hopers. What happened to the jab? Its a freakin endangered species I could teach these people how to use a jab and stay away from a power side and I have not boxed in 30 years which leads to another undeniable fact. Outside of a bunch of celebrity poser lap dogs, there are no trainers left. Those real trainers that are left are composting in east side gyms living off pork and beans in a one room suite. People shitting on Joe Louis and yet idol worshiping James Toney. Yes Albert there really are 14 dimensions.

Ahh fuck it, I better go earn my keep. Picture man walking backwards hands at his side and through the western door. Ibid you a good morning, afternoon, tomorrow whatever.

[Hulk]

Fuckers are writing essays in this thread.

No one is reading all that lol

[Master]

Fuckers are writing essays in this thread.

No one is reading all that lol

Yes show us some pictures as well.

[Beanz]

[Beanz]

owned.jpg

[Beanz]

[Ron Swanson]

Don't want to interrupt the flow here but I wanted to say great thread. Lots of quality information.

[p4pking]

^^. I just don't understand how some people get so emotional over a sport we all obviously love. I think it's the work of a few trolls mainly, there is a rift being created between genuinely great objective posters. Both Bean(s,z) are terrific contributors here imo. Some of ya'll are being reduced to some bullshit round hurrr lately.